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#1 Posted on: 2011/8/4 11:20 X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
The other thread that I've started: "Change of XOOPS Project Structure? Let's discuss it" deals mainly with Governance issues of XOOPS.

However, some people raised issues related to Xoops Engine and XOOPS development in general. In order to keep the discussions focused, it makes sense to continue it in a separate thread, so I've created this one here for issues related to current XOOPS development.

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#2 Posted on: 2011/8/4 12:44 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
DJ became XOOPS Core Leader 4 years ago, in summer 2007.

End of 2007 we published this plan for X3:

From: http://xoops.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4090

Quote:
XOOPS 3.0 Branch
XOOPS 3.0 is our next generation of XOOPS and has been prepared for years, which was named Xoosphere. The first goal of 3.0 is to improve XOOPS with a solid low-level architecture upon which we can build all required components.

The stable public release of XOOPS 3.0, is expected to provide developers and designers a platform with extreme extensibility and high development efficiency, end users with a powerful and customable web management and development system :

- Fully supporting PHP 5.2+ and MySQL 5.0+ natively
- Supporting multiple database drivers
- Supporting multiple authentication drivers, including native xoopsDB, LDAP, OpenID, etc.
- Supporting multi-site feature
- New i18n service with native multi-language support
- Supporting multiple template engines thus customized template engine
- Embedded security protection against XSS and sql injection to free module developers from security concerns
- Enhancement of backend, including usability, automation of management tasks, security audit, etc.
- Boot sequence allowing preload feature
- Kernel is open to third-party developers so that they can add own frameworks or libraries without hacking the core, which also allows developers sharing libraries with others
- Improved ORM will enable crossing-module hook to allow interactions between modules without hacking each other
- RIA (Rich Internet Application : flex or ajax) will be implemented for usability improvement
Creativity and compatibility: the future XOOPS will focus on the solid architecture and cutting edge features, meanwhile, XOOPS 2.3 modules will be fully compatible with XOOPS 3.0 through a legacy system
- A basic module toolkit will be provided for webmasters to create their own modules without programming skill
- Theme becomes inheritable, allowing webmaster creating a new theme dependent on a parent theme shared by other themes, which is convenient for webmasters and powerful for multi-site applications with great potential
- All in all, we will continue to evolve XOOPS into a top-notch CMS for end users, a powerful and extensible platform for developers!

We'll also focus on creating more user-friendly features for the administrator as well as the end-user. The goal is to make XOOPS a first-class experience "out of the box". Once installed, the user should have all the basic modules and features to be fully operational.

Our recent releases focused on stability and security. While we'll improve these as well, our focus will shift to make XOOPS more extensible by creating a module framework that makes development of new modules easier. All of this while ensuring our legendary compatibility with previous modules. We know that switching to another CMS could be very painful, regardless how easy they might make it sound. Only XOOPS is the true growth path for our users and we are committed to keep it that way!

That was going to be delivered in 2008.

In January 2011, three years later, DJ published this new schedule, and as you can see, we've missed already several deadlines and are way behind:

Quote:
* Alpha 1 in end January (this release), open to community conrtibution
* Alpha 2 in middle February, mainly for developers to review code and write most wanted applications (missed: released on May)
* Beta 1 in early April, for end users to start testing (still missing)
* RC 1 in June, reasonably stable for production development (still missing)
* Final in early December, celebrating XOOPS 10's Anniversary


We all know that sometimes schedules slip, but the problem is that for the several years now we are not able to make any changes or improvements to XOOPS 2.x, because DJ wants it to be frozen. Many of the XOOPS 2.5 bugs are not being fixed, and it is a constant struggle supporting our X2 users here.

With the current schedule slippages, we probably won't see a stable, bug-free production-ready version of X3 before early 2012.

In the meantime we're losing our users, who are getting sick and tired of waiting for X3, and being forced to deal with bugs in X2 and outdated modules.

So where do we go from here?

The original reason for freezing X2 was that X3 would include Legacy code that would enable existing X2 module to be installed and used in X3. That would make sense.

However, last week DJ announced on his twitter , that Quote:
"Legacy repo will be moved to archives and not maintained anymore, see @julionc proposal on github wiki. Other solutions will be provided."

If this is correct, then this should open X2 development for changes, since there is no compatibility needed anymore.

However, DJ continues to insist on the X2 freeze and new innovation are still being killed or resisted, with the best example now the ModuleAdmin class developed by Mage. Mage is a very skilled module developer, and I liked his design because it is totally OOP and it was a great way to update our modules to have a consistent GUI and in the process to update the modules to "Blue Move". Our users are asking for updated modules and it was a very good way to accomplish it.

Mage went out of the way in order to not touch the X2 Core (to avoid problems with DJ), and has created a class that is being placed in /Frameworks directory. We've updated several modules as part of our "Basic Module Pack" that you can test now, but DJ is trying to kill even that.

My challenge to DJ - if you don't like Mage's code, if you think, you can improve it, then please do so! But DO NOT KILL every contribution the community is providing that is helping to make XOOPS better. This is Open Source, and WE WANT people to contribute, innovate, improve, so we all can learn from each other, and make XOOPS a better system.

I am clearly frustrated with the lack of progress on X3 and the constant delays, and empty promises. But while I would like to see X3 ASAP, I believe that our users deserve fixing bugs and improvements on X2, whatever it would be. They invested their trust in XOOPS, many of them have been here for years, and they deserve our effort to keep them happy. For me our users come first, before anything else.

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#3 Posted on: 2011/8/4 13:20 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
I don't know what the hell you're doing, you said this project is like your baby. So what are you doing with him?

I left the project long ago, and return to help DJ with X3 this year. You know the reason of this. But with your attitude, and things I know now just want to leave and not return.

Michael wants the community opinion, then xoopers see what Michael said about the proposal, and why he's not be the leader now. (Also know dictador).

So open the door to the mailing list. The community encouraged to draw their own conclusions.

I planned to focus us two weeks for 2.5 and fixing it. Then we focus on 3.0.

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#4 Posted on: 2011/8/4 13:31 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
ohh I forget...

The current X3 is stopped thank you Michael and DJ with his fighting.
I hope to take this proposal seriously [1]. The current X3 found it github [2]
And XOOPS 2.5.2 could be found in SF.net SVN. We don't use trunk because someone dirty it. Now we forced to use svn branches, this ????? is slow and complicated. I prefer git.

[1] https://github.com/esxoops/esxoops_wik ... Repository-Reorganization
[2] https://github.com/xoops/engine
[3] http://xoops.svn.sf.net/viewvc/xoops/ ... ore/branches/2.5.x/2.5.2/

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#5 Posted on: 2011/8/4 22:40 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
I think this whole "fight" has gone too far. We need to figure out where we go from here...

Can Mamba and Dj work together after all of this?

If not some serious decisions need to be made...

Rodney

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#6 Posted on: 2011/8/9 4:25 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
@ Kris:
Quote:
For me, these two topics are the same: your handling of the community to abandon the current version x3 made ​​by DJ and kill the project Xoops or split in two!
If you want to keep the x2, you just have to make a fork if you wish, but the community wants this x3

Kris, the community was loud and clear that since X3 is not here, we need to work on X2 and fix the open bugs. Even Microsoft didn't say: We're working on Vista, therefore we're stopping all bug fixing on Windows XP.

Once we have X3 that is stable and functional, then it will be time to stop work on X2.

But right now it seems we'll have yet another X3 delay, as it doesn't look like Alpha 3 will be released on August 13th.


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#7 Posted on: 2011/8/9 4:33 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
Fixed bugs, does not mean added additional code

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#8 Posted on: 2011/8/9 4:35 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
Instead of focusing on adding features on the x2, as much to do from the development of x3 - soon to be implemented, will be released soon x3

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#9 Posted on: 2011/8/9 4:38 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
Kris, so far we nobody added any new code to the Core.

We've created ModuleAdmin class to help standardize our old modules, but the class is outside of the Core.

Besides, we're still waiting for an explanation what is wrong with the code, and why DJ changed his mind from congratulating the team, to trying to discredit it.

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#10 Posted on: 2011/8/9 5:08 Re: X2 & X3 development - where do we go?
Please, stop to put it on the carpet, you know very well that another is planned in the management and interface x3 (but perhaps did not have you installed?), so I'm repeating myself, but instead of x2 watch, watch and work on the x3!

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