11
Mithrandir
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!

I am very much offended!

I stand in the way of progress? HOW? I spend a lot of my free time on helping people here or participate in discussions on dev.xoops.org or looking at other peoples code - or making my own.

Is that standing in the way of progress? Is that posting just to have my picture on the site? If that was all I wanted, don't you think I would have stopped, once I hit 921 posts?

OK, so XOOPS doesn't have WAI/section 508 compliance, but here's a little secret: When most of the actual content comes from third party module developers it is very hard to guarantee such standard compliance - especially section 508. I don't doubt that it is possible to make some tools to ensure e.g. title and alt attributes for links and images, but section 508 says more than that.
XOOPS just doesn't promise what it cannot keep.

But I would really like a response to how I stand in the way of progress. FAST!

EDIT:
And it would be nice if just SOMEONE spelled my nick correctly in the first try

12
svaha
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 9:15

  • svaha

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 896

  • Since: 2003/8/2 2


Quote:
I have certainly been hanging around here for too long


How you spend your time in your life is your own responsibility, so don't bother us with it.

If you want to improve Xoops, say what exactly you want, not what you don't want.

Aloha

13
Herko
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 10:12

  • Herko

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4238

  • Since: 2002/2/4 1


Quote:

Slicer wrote:
I have certainly been hanging around here for too long.
I have been using XOOPS for about 9 months now.
9 months is too long for you? I have been active in this community for about 2 years now. So I think I can put things in it's propper perspective
Quote:
I have seen some disturbing changes in the community. The developement team is totally wasting a great resource -- the community. There are many talented programmers, debuggers, users and visionaries using this bullentin board.
There are many talented people I agree, but I don't feel 'the development team' is wasting them at all. And apparently you're not one of those people on the list (programmers, debuggers, visionaries etc.) -since if you were, you would have found out on day 1 (and not stille be clueless after 9 months) that XOOPS is a Content Management SYstem, not a bulettin board.
Quote:
As a community we could solve any problem and take XOOPS to any level. Talented contributors solve annoying problems, add much needed features and offer great help to new users.

What's this 'we' part? I haven't seen your application for a development team, or your modules or themes yet. Just your gripes about the fact that you're not getting what you want asap for free. The XOOPS community is ALL of us, developers, supporters, designers, longtime members and newbies, all included. Talented contributors help solve issues indeed, but not per sé the communities issues, but their own. Which is perfect of course. But being a community is more then helping solve everyones problems. It's about the quality product XOOPS is, about giving the community a place to make their contributions, about helping them be part of a bigger whole. And frankly, your posts, even in the context of the web standards thread, doesn't show any intelligent contribution to that bigger whole.
Quote:
But what happens to them? Herko, Mithandir, Preadator and others stand in the way of progress. This heirachy is the way programming was done in the 1970's. Each person carving out their own little niche and as a result create nothing. All I see is promises. When we get a release it is more likely to give you a blank page rather than a new feature. I haven't see any thing new since I've been here.

XOOPS is about quality, not quantity. If you want many modules, use php-nuke. If you want eyecandy, use Mambo. You're free to choose, you're not forced to use XOOPS. But you still do, even after 9 months of nichebuilding and dust collecting.
How do we stop progress? I honestly don't think you have ANY idea what it takes to run a development project with over 16.000 people looking over your shoulder, expecting quality. For the past 6 months, I have devoted ALL my time to organising XOOPS, so that people who have a contribution to make, can do so, adding to the bigger whole. But, within the quality standards XOOPS has, the amount of time available from everyone contributing, and the lack of organisational structures before I started, it doesn't happen overnight. Yes, we make a lot of promises, but never ones that we can't keep, or haven't explained to the community why we chose otherwise.

You state that this post is take completely out of context in it's own thread, and that it fits in neatly in the web standards thread. When viewing it in the propper context, I still can't find any clue as to where your gripe comes from. The post itself states that the other projects are WORKING on it. Who is to say (and if you read the forums you'll find enough clues), that XOOPS isn't among the list of projects that will work with those standards?
It's not the developers who are standing in the way of progress, it's the user's imagination. This is Free, Open Source Software. XHTML is a case of going through the Smarty templates and changing them so the output validates. CSS is just one file. Accessibility standards is the same stiory, minor changes perhaps to a few core files (mostly where image presentation si concerned), but nothing major. Don't expect XOOPS to be what you need, expect yourself to make XOOPS what you want. Use your imagination, not this bitching about niches that doesn't have any basis in reality. You're free to make the changes you need yourself. The only limits are your skills, intelligence, creativity and imagination. As you're frustrated (obviously), I suspect you're lacking in one or more of these departments.
Quote:

Let's face it all modules are simply database queries poorly displayed.

I rest my case. You obviously don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. ANd again, I challenge you to show us what you can do with XOOPS. I'd be happy to see if those changes and additions can be made part of the core, if they meet our standards...

Herko

p.s. to the rest of the community: I normally don't make these angry posts, I try to stay away from this as much as possible. But the unfounded accusations needed an answer.

14
DaBoyz
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 10:25

  • DaBoyz

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 79

  • Since: 2002/8/8 1


Quote:
When we get a release it is more likely to give you a blank page rather than a new feature.

Perhaps you should better use another CMS ... or perhaps program your own ...

15
marcan
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 11:48

  • marcan

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 824

  • Since: 2003/10/8


Ok, this is the last 30 seconds I can afford in that matter :
Quote:
Well everyone had a chance to take a cheap shot at me


Please read your original post another time. Don't you see where the cheap comments originated from?

Ok, that's it. Let's move on and use our time in a better fashion.

Regards.

16
Mithrandir
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how I stand in the way of progress.

Since the original poster meant that 2 hours was enough for everyone to have a cheap stab at him, surely 5 hours is enough for him to defend his point of view?

17
Slicer
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 18:17

  • Slicer

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 29

  • Since: 2003/12/6


Mithrandir: Sorry for misspelling your name. Fantasy is not my natural language. As for my statements - come to your own conclusions.
https://xoops.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18336&forum=23&post_id=77855#forumpost77855
None of the other CMS solutions seem so bewildered by the standards.
Mithrandir: You are the best help desk clerk in town since CBlue is no longer with us.

HerKo: Get a job. Let XOOPS run itself naturally.
http://www.herkocoomans.net/modules/weblog/details.php?blog_id=2
I Guess I am not the only one unhappy with your management plans.


Quote:
Quote: Herko

p.s. to the rest of the community: I normally don't make these angry posts, I try to stay away from this as much as possible. But the unfounded accusations needed an answer.


Here is an example of the community at work solving problems. Posted on: 2004/3/4
https://xoops.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17380&forum=15

@Samuels Posted on: 2004/3/23
I have abandoned NewbbPro developement, now I'm working hard in module dev team with newbb.
Dev team is plenty of pro coders (not like me) I'm helping all I can making improvements and all major features of newbb pro will be on next version of newbb official module.

Please read whole thread Note the elapsed time is 19 days. This is a result of the community working together.

There are many more examples in the database - this is just one.

We all know what lip service we have received. But I am stating facts supported by evidence.

I apologize to the community for being so sharp with my comments. I apologize to anyone who's feeling I have hurt. But the facts remain. XOOPS is a living growing entity and IMO more important than a few bruised egos. To quote Shava "What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."

18
JackJ
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 18:56

  • JackJ

  • Community Support Member

  • Posts: 747

  • Since: 2003/8/31


Goodness, I didn't know all this. Thanks for opening my blind eyes Slicer. Your kind, innofensive, gentle words of wisdom have changed my life for ever. I am downgrading to one of the other nuke's now..

19
HughG
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!
  • 2004/4/2 19:06

  • HughG

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 124

  • Since: 2003/2/21


I've been around for a bit. I would have to agree that it "appears" that some things have slowed or stopped - but I think you're confusing the fact that the later releases have been mostly stability/bug fixes vs new whistles and bells. I perfer to have a rock solid product first and let the whistles and bells come later.

Granted, there are things I would have preferred stay the same - like the old way themes were incorporated directly into the DB. (THAT was sweet) They changed it and well... it made it easier for the newer members-users to be able to develop themes.

I didn't like the new way, but instead of tossing a hissy fit and finger pointing - I jumped in and did what I thought would help the community out the best and pumped out several themes.

Additionally, in case you didn't know, I was part of the Core team when it was first coming to be. I didn't agree with some things - so I backed out gracefully - again no hissy fit and finger pointing - but again, I try to help the community in any way I can - questions, themes, etc.

Im not pointing out the above as a means of saying "Wow, HughG....blah blah blah..." But to rather point out how waaaaaaay out in left field you seem to be bub.

If you don't have the mod you want, get your ass busy and write one! (that's what the rest of us do that really need one). If you don't have the skills to write one, then wait patiently with the rest of the peeps.

Stamping your feet and waaah baby'n won't get you any closer...

Just my .02

---------------------
Oh yeah, Mithrandir quit holding up progress!

20
Mithrandir
Re: Thank You for opening my eyes!

Quote:

Slicer wrote:
https://xoops.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18336&forum=23&post_id=77855#forumpost77855
None of the other CMS solutions seem so bewildered by the standards.

I cannot comment on how much they have read the section 508 details - and again, it's better to keep promises than promise too much and disappoint
Quote:

Mithrandir: You are the best help desk clerk in town since CBlue is no longer with us.

So what's that *BULLSHIT* about me holding up progress?
Quote:

HerKo: Get a job. Let XOOPS run itself naturally.
http://www.herkocoomans.net/modules/weblog/details.php?blog_id=2

Personal insult aside, attacking Herko for ANYTHING is just plain stupid. Without Herko, there would be no coordination - and what would that accomplish?

Quote:

Here is an example of the community at work solving problems. Posted on: 2004/3/4
https://xoops.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17380&forum=15

And that proves your point how? It's not like anyone says that it is a bad thing that Newbb Pro has come out.

Wherein lies the problem?

Quote:
I apologize to the community for being so sharp with my comments. I apologize to anyone who's feeling I have hurt. But the facts remain.

You give us one thread, which shows good work in the community - so good that Predator has taken lots of hints to incorporate in the next version of newBB plus the lot, the newBB module development team has come up with... What's your point

Basically, I feel crapped on and very much offended - and your apologies need to be much better to change that
Quote:
XOOPS is a living growing entity and IMO more important than a few bruised egos. To quote Shava "What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."
You try spending some 10-20 hours a week to help other people and actually contribute to something just to see some guy insult you with awful arguments. See how you feel after such a round.

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