94
Mikhail
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/4/28 1:08

  • Mikhail

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 412

  • Since: 2003/1/19


Quote:

xpider wrote:
I fear that new commers to XOOPS will read threads like this that can be found all over XOOPS and decide to just leave.



my gnu/gpl credits are part of the payment for the colaborative work. so this question is VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME.


Quote:

I also believe I've seen a request for marketing xoops... do you think this shows a community that stands together and works together?


yes, I understand. I have serious problems with a commerial community called XOOPS Brasil, owned by a WebHosting CompaNny (Giba is a proprietary),.... Im tired, and I hate to talk and think about it (and Herko too, hehe), but I think necessary sometimes...

93
Mikhail
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/4/28 0:49

  • Mikhail

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 412

  • Since: 2003/1/19


Quote:

Dave_L wrote:
Maybe a standard language constant could be provided in each language pack: _MI_XOOPS_AUTHOR_TRANSLATION

It could be displayed conditionally, in case it's not present:

if (defined('_MI_XOOPS_AUTHOR_TRANSLATION')) {
 echo 
_MI_XOOPS_AUTHOR_TRANSLATION;
}


ELSE....


$modversion['author_translation'] = "Not yet";

or

$modversion['author_translation'] = "Local Support";


or any other 'placebo' solution, I don't know... just a brainstorm... []'s! mikhail

92
xpider
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/4/28 0:49

  • xpider

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 150

  • Since: 2004/5/9 2


I fear that new commers to XOOPS will read threads like this that can be found all over XOOPS and decide to just leave. I also believe I've seen a request for marketing xoops... do you think this shows a community that stands together and works together? I came to XOOPS becuase it was free of charge and that's it... So have many others. I really don't care what the GPL says or doesn't say. When reading the copyright within XOOPS it is my belief that the original creator designed it for this purpose and did every thing he could to keep it that way.

And in my opinion I don't believe anyone should be able to argue with that fact.

And I believe he should be honored around here no matter what anyone might think of him. XOOPS History is a great idea...

Just my opinion...

91
Dave_L
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/4/28 0:39

  • Dave_L

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2277

  • Since: 2003/11/7


Maybe a standard language constant could be provided in each language pack: _MI_XOOPS_AUTHOR_TRANSLATION

It could be displayed conditionally, in case it's not present:

if (defined('_MI_XOOPS_AUTHOR_TRANSLATION')) {
 echo 
_MI_XOOPS_AUTHOR_TRANSLATION;
}

90
ackbarr
Re: Double Standards

mikhail - that is a good idea, and several modules, WF-Sections, SmartFAQ, among others include translator credits. Others put it in the documentation files, the README, for example.
One possible problem with this proposal though is that translations are typically created after the module is released, so the module developer wouldn't know who will be translating the module when writing the xoops_version.php file. Some of the larger modules have people who have volunteered to translate the module as each new release is available, and in those projects it would make the most sense to include them in the credits.

89
Mikhail
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/4/27 22:08

  • Mikhail

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 412

  • Since: 2003/1/19


Quote:

0. This License applies to any program or other work which contains a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed under the terms of this General Public License. The "Program", below, refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program" means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another language. (Hereinafter, translation is included without limitation in the term "modification".)

6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. You are not responsible for enforcing compliance by third parties to this License.




A simple question for translators and developers: why not include something like "$modversion['author_translation'] = "Mr. Mambo Jambo";" in all "modinfo.php" files???


Why not?



[]s

mikhail

88
m0nty
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/2/26 16:51

  • m0nty

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 3337

  • Since: 2003/10/24


ok so we're back onto this subject again..

@Texx, he isn't deceiving, and i woulds still consider it to be a donation simply because of the 1 Fact you seemed to overlook and that fact being 'Donator release of ams 2.4)' which means if you donated to the project, you can download the module now.. if you DID NOT donate you will have to wait a month to get it without donating..

if it was a 'sale' then the option to download the module a month later would not be there without having to pay for it.. which is simply not the case!! so nobody is being dishonest or deceiving anybody!!

87
texxs
Re: Double Standards, incubators & donation releases
  • 2005/2/26 16:36

  • texxs

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 10

  • Since: 2005/2/14


That's obviously a sale, not a donation. Donations are voluntary! You get the product wether you donate or not. If you can't get the product w/out paying that is a sale not a donation. Why isn't that painfully obvious to everyone?

Is it like a WMD thing? Where you just lie to yourself so that you can do bad things guilt free? Or do people honestly not know what donation means?

Also there are so many ways in the GPL to to charge money that there is absolutley no reason to decieve people.

Quote from GPL section 1, paragraph 2:
"You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy . . ."

Any many more ways as well. No reason to be dishonest about this yet so many people are. I just don't understand . . .

86
MorelyDotes
Re: Double Standards

Quote:

It's strange for me to be in the role of MS apologist but your sniping was mis-aimed in this case. I feel icky now.... Thanks a lot.


When I wrote that, I had open on the laptop next to me the Windows Update page for XP Pro. It states rather emphatically that "Windows XP Support on Windows Update sill soon require XP SP1 or later."

Ever heard of Windows Product Activation? As a method of "punishing" those who have bypassed the proper method of obtaining Windows, Microsoft has stated that it is their intention to withold updates (including security updates) from people who have not applied SP1. It is well-known that SP1 (and later service packs) tighten the WPA down and de-activate pirated copies of XP. The end result is that the percentage of unpatched copies of XP will increase, perhaps dramatically, and thus increase the number of malware-infested machines spewing forth yet more malware which we who are I.T. professionals have to deal with.

So, no, my "sniping" was not mis-aimed, it's perfectly accurate.

Of course, the lack of security even in fully-patched Windows is part of the reason I am fully employed, so at best, I have mixed feelings about it. Still, I'd rather have to deal more with user education (also part of my job) and less with frantic scrambles to secure against the latest exploit.

But back to the point of this whole thread: I don't personally use AMS, or (knowingly) any other module that has a commercial or semi-commercial basis - yet. But the GPL is very clear on this: One certainly may create a derivative work and charge for distribution, packaging, and support, so long as source code is provided. Furthermore, as soon as I convince $DAY_JOB's VP that FOSS can provide the level of support we need for our intranet, I will be commissioning a module which will be released under the GPL, and I have every expectation that the authors will charge for support. I expect it and I encourage it.

If one can support one's own needs without paying Mith, or Red Hat, or Microsoft, or whomever, then bully! But if not, one has no right to demand cost-free support if it isn't offered. Of course, with closed-source software, you're pretty well screwed if the publisher decides that your problem isn't important (or sufficiently profitable) enough to merit attention.

And that's the bottom line.

85
Speed
Re: Double Standards
  • 2005/2/18 20:27

  • Speed

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 310

  • Since: 2004/5/18


Quote:
One must assume that you avoid Microsoft products like the plague which they are, then?


I do use MS products. I do use Linux. I do use open and closed source software depending on which best meets the requirements for the task at hand. I'm not sure what you are implying or trying to say except that you dislike MS and felt the need to share that with the group.... I dislike them too but I usually try to disparage them with facts, not fiction.

MS products have their share of bugs. MS doesn't drop all support for a previous version when a new one is released but rather they maintain multiple code bases. MS doesn't charge for security updates if you have a legal copy their software in the first place and for most of the company's history (they're starting to change now) they have provided security updates to all users regardless of whether they owned a legal copy of the software being patched.

It's strange for me to be in the role of MS apologist but your sniping was mis-aimed in this case. I feel icky now.... Thanks a lot.

Now back to the discussion at hand.

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