Mongral,

Good point, I signed up for a demo and it appeared to be a fairly old version of XOOPS being used, but I maybe wrong.

Register on the demo and see for yourself.

They can sell XOOPS, but only under the terms of the GPL. This means two things: they have to keep the credits in the files intact, *and* they cannot restrict what you do with the code they distribute. If they only host the site, they're not distributing it, so they are not bound by the non-restrictions from the copyleft of the GPL. Crafty, but morally not good.

I have examples of XOOPS codes that ar being sold as other softwares, with full restrictions tho...

Hypothetically, what do you feel we should do when we find a real case of misuse and GPL violation? How should we go about this?

Herko

I have no issues with people making money off xoops, nor selling themes, modules, etc, but they seem to have masked the fact it's xoops, as you say this is legal, but seems wrong.

Herko with regards to your comment, is there not some kind of legal way to deal with true offenders?

I'm not an expert on the law.

Could you not create a blacklisted page type thing, which make examples of them along with other links to those sites which are moral so users can choose a trusted partner which offers services over those which are not quiet so moral.

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1) They offer professional installation, (which is great for those that do not know how to install a MySQL driven site)

2) They offer support - (which are allowed to do and to charge for this)

3) They are offering free hosting for 1 year -- (what a deal!)

They also state on the listing that the code is based on "open source". So, where is the "crafty part" there? If there were crafty would they just not mention it?

Also, the code has been changed ALOT and the credits remain intact for both the GPL as well as the original authors credits at the top of each file.

They also distribute the software to the clients in zip format (also allowed under the GPL)

So now I suppose your local Best Buy store is also breaking the law by providing Linux on cd with a "pretty box" Is that crafty too?

netshark, calm down I beleive this discussion isa very calm discussion and nobody insulted nobody...

I beleive we all agreed that they are not broking any law and they comply to the GPL. No doubt about that.

The only thing we are saying is that the wording could have been better. When you read their ads, it seems like you are actually buying the software, which is not the case. You are buying the installation, the services, the hosting etc...

Cheers !

Quote:

Your right. I just get so fed up with people that never bother to read the GPL. They all have this idea on what it means but they never actually read the GPL. They then make claims of things like that is in the title "New low for scammers of Xoops"

I am sorry for the rant It over now.....

Keep up the good work guys. I have finished some new modules I will be submitting to the modules repository later on tomorrow I also have an awsome "flash" based theme that I want to submit however I am not sure on how secure it is to use flash with Xoops.

Quote:
Given the Global reach of XOOPs, it seems likely that someone, somewhere is doing that very thing. Enforcing compliance can be quite difficult, especially if the seller/installer is a fly-by-night operation. While forming a legal committee and/or fund is probably premature, some attempt at forming a policy regarding license may not be a bad idea.

One way to start would be with the identification of players in this hypothetical case:

-XOOPs
-The Seller
-The Customer
-The governing authority with jurisdiction in the Sellers physical location
-Any appropriate national/international organizations to whom complaints are to be directed

Some Cease and Desisit Letter might be drafted, perhaps with input from some legal expert:
Quote:

The buyer might be notified to be sure that they are made aware that they purchased something they could have gotten for "free."

I don't know what legal recourse is available in a situation like this, should it occur, but surely there is a precedent for it or something very similar.

Can it be argued that the XOOPs community suffers any actual damages from the sale of the system outside compliance with the license? Maybe yes, maybe no. It is on one hand a matter of giving credit where credit is due and on the other, as I said earlier, protecting the reputation of XOOPs from unjustified harm due to the actions of rogue "installers."

Quote:

If it looks intentional, personally I'd like to see a letter sent to them from the XOOPS Foundation.

Just a thought - but if someone does include GPL code in a proprietary non-GPL product, can they continue to claim copyright over their own product? Could anyone (hypothetically) start distributing the 'proprietary' software on the basis that it contained GPL code?

That might make a lot of companies think twice.

Quote:

The GPL is very clear on this, actually. The GPL does not transfer the IP rights (intellectual property rights, such as the copyright) from the original author at all. The code is owned at all times by the author. But, by rightfully releasing that code under the terms of the GPL, the author grants everyone a non-discriminatory, everlasting, non-revokable *licence* to use the code under the terms described.
In other words, if you're not the copyright owner of the code, you cannot grant others this license. That protects closed code from being released under the terms of the GPL unwillingly.
The other way round is another matter tho. Open code distributed as closed and with restrictions that the GPL doesn't allow, is more difficult to find and fight.
GNU/FSF has an abuse e-mail address, but we'll need solid proof of course. And even if we have a solid cas, what to do with it. Sue? Claim damages? I think a cease and desist letter is a good start, but what if they don't stop? (note that I'm referring to a hypothetical case where there is a clear violation of the terms of the GPL!!) Send in the lawyers, a time consuming and expensive measure, and definately not our core business. What about the modifications they have made? There's a good chance they legally should be open sourced as GPL (as a derrived work of XOOPS), but do we force that, in effect create a fork?
I think this is not an easy thing to determine, as there are many factors to take into consideration. But I'm keen to hear everyone's thoughts and suggestions

Herko

@netshark:
Quote:
I agree with you. Most people don't know or understand the GPL. I agree it may be frustrating sometimes...

@mongrel:
Quote:
I also agree with you. It is obvious that people around the world are doing this at this very moment. Fighting those people would require A LOT of energy for very little gain...

I understand it's frusrtating... But it's life ! Some people care about the others, and other people don't. We have accept that.

Law actions agains those people is highly improbable as we don't have the money nor the time to do it.

My thought on this is yes, we can send them a letter an notify the GPL organisation but that's it. After that, let's focus on what we do best : creating the best CMS around !

Cheers !