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I give them credit for that, but don't they also have a team of people who had worked together before and who brought a lot of pre-existing Mambo-based concepts, protocol etc with them? I thought most of them just jumped ship from Mambo.

We move into offtopic here, sir Chief Moderator... see topic's title. Maybe for our question we'll jump into special topic?

I suggest that a review of the project management team as XOOPS organisation in a whole have place in a public forum.

* Politely bring up your case with validations that are based in fact.

- Many developers and designers were insulted by P.M. Team
and left the XOOPS project

- XOOPS Project Fork

- People still complaining


* Formulate a proposal on how to bring about the desired change in a way that is mutually beneficial for all.

- Create a forum to discuss about XOOPS organisation model, people skills, and the process of vote.

- Developers still coding
- Designers still designing
- MOderators still moderate forums
- Community read propositions and vote for a new Project Management Team

* Take action on the proposal when called upon, and continue to take action as needed.

That's what we have been done by posting our alerts, comments and suggestions.

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Yes... but even they was Mambo-team as I know (maybe wrong) Miro provides
- PR
- finances for exhibition

... not direct management of project

And the desire of hard, autoritative ownership of project from Miro's side became the reason for "riot aboard the ship"

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I've read the report and I don't think, this is the reason.

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I won't aim as high as LB. Please update Organisation page. Update leaders, add team members and add areas that are currently not covered, like Moderating team and XOOPS site admin.

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Well, I see it in realtime from beginning. And I'm sure - i'm not idiot and I'm not blind... I see facts, events and internal logic behind all

The same requestst, the same proposals, the same ideas but in another topic. As a matter of fact: This topic.
How many topics have been started about these issues during the last year. How many times have topics been started to take a look at mambo later on joomla? Also in those topics the same answers, proposals and ideas turned up, but non got realy of the ground.
All we do is keep on comparing, keep on disussing but without taking action on and within Xoops.

I'd say, keep on babbling/discussing, keep on comparing, keep on proposing, launching ideas, - requests and start new topics about the same issues again.
Somehow this gets very boring. It is like pushing the 'repeat button' again.

Just let me refer to the Theme Contest topic. Now another topic has been started about xoopstheme and tjeez, almost the same answers are given.

Let me also refer to the topic posted some weeks ago about the WOX newsletter. They asked what WE would like to see in it. Just a handfull of replies were given, with I think some descend ideas and/or requests.
I am curious about the next WOX.

Grtz., Shine

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You still hope to see it??? Well, maybe somethere in 2006 year.. Or - let's I wrote my WOX on January results?!

Deadline 1.02.2006 00:00 GMT

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Comparing XOOPS to other projects is definitely useful as that is what consumers and corporations will do. They have a set of criteria that they want to have met. They check the products that are available. They make decisions based on whether their criteria will be met to their satisfaction. This seems to be a rather no-brainer. While we don't need to follow other's trends, we do need to be aware of what they are doing and make sure that we know what criteria we are aiming to meet.

However, that isn't why I posted the topic. To be quite honest, I am much more interested in the politics and sociology of forking projects. This is a good opportunity to look at what they did or didn't do and to try to understand what we can learn. What caused their break? What has caused our breaks? What is gained and/or lost by forking? Who does forking affect? Is forking good or bad and to whom? Does forking affect productivity? Does it aid innovation? How has forking affected Xoops?

I'm also interested in the aftermath of forkings. I'm curious how people make a choice as to which fork to follow when there is often not much real information generally available to the public. If the new projects have drastically divergent goals, it seems to be easier to make a choice. But what if they remain very similar, perhaps striving to maintain interoperability? How do developers make their choices and are they different from those made by end-users? How has forking affected Xoops?

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Thank you jmorris for your succinct summary of how to make changes. I have worked with and been lead administrator on a number of open source projects. What you recommend is what every project I've been with desires. In short, a little mutual respect and proactive cooperation go a long way to making a community more productive and more enjoyable.

As an aside, I find LB and his troll friends to be interesting; sometimes even a mildly amusing. They have given up on XOOPS as a failure -- every step taken is in the wrong direction; communication is non-existant; the bug fixes and changes are never the right ones, aren't enough and are too late. They demand that decisions be immediate and decisive but democratic and all-pleasing. They have an incredible obsessive NEED to post their opinions -- repeatedly -- about a product they feel is horribly misguided. Absolutely amazing.... Gotta love the internet....

Ok guys, let me tell something,
We (Promotion and marketing team) were not involved with the new logo or any other decision for it. We just prepared the announcement! Perhaps you should blame the core team for that!
I did;nt even know there was such a logo before a few days before the announcement. I was also a supporter of public announcement of the logo and the approval of the community! I'm sure there were other members of promotion team who wanted this as well, so stop saying we did it, we didn't even see the other logos which were created!
I'm really planing to move away from Xoops!