Can I ask...

I find that when people find out, read or are told that your new 'all-singing-all-dancing' web site was created with Xoops, people seem to 'play down' your achievements with statements like "Oh, so you didn't build it from scratch then?", and "So anyone could have done it" etc etc. They don't seem to grasp that despite the fact that modules etc have been written for the users, there's still a great deal fo work for each webmaster to do to customise their XOOPS site into an actual site that specifically meets their (or their clients) needs. I always like to tell people that 'my new site' was created with XOOPS because I don't like to pretend I'm a fancy PHP programmer when I'm not. But as soon as I do, I tend to lose credit for the work I've done.

In other words, people don't seem to understand that the features and functionalities of XOOPS have taken many developers and thousands of Xoopers years to develop. No one average person could realistically have ever created it on their own. There is still a lot of work that each webmaster has to do on their own sites. On average it has taken me about 8 weeks (1 to 2 hours per night) to do each of my two websites from start to launch date with the obvious changes that trickle through once the site is live. So it's still a lot of work although yes, I'm not a core, module or theme developer.

But the average web user\computer user doesn't seem to understand that.

I wonder what other Xoopers say when they are met with this response?

Ted

Quote:
Usually something beginning with "Your mom..."

Seriously, I've been working together with two other developers on a site for three months and we are getting tons of praise because we keep the deadline (almost - we are delayed 2 days) which is otherwise unheard of.
XOOPS makes that possible.

When people think that just because you use a CMS tool for your website, then you had it all easy, I pity their ignorance and also I pity their perception of what it takes to build a website. Possibly, they have seen too many out-of-the-box websites with poor templates and standard modules knocked together in a weekend.

Their loss.

Some of the people who say similar things to me then go and try to use XOOPS to make a site for themselves.

Then they realise - although its straight forward - that its a little more involved then they thought... and guess who they come running to?

I guess I've been fortunate. Most of my clients are completely uneducated when it comes to web design. I usually have to offer a training session to teach them how to post content.

I've designed a lot of sites with XOOPS and the "traditional" way. In many ways, it's no easier to build a site using a CMS. There are so many ready made scripts for "traditional" websites, that often times, it's just a matter of pasting code to get a site going. With a CMS, you have to be much more creative. Theme design with "traditional" websites is much easier too because you don't have to take modules and blocks into consideration.

However, what attracted me to the idea of using a CMS is that *after* the site is designed, the upkeep is soooo much easier. This gives me a BIG edge over my local competitors. They want to charge anywhere from $25-$100 per hour to update a client's website every time a change is needed no matter how big or small.

On the other hand, I offer "service contracts" and I train my clients on how to publish content for themselves. This represents a tremendous value for my clients because the only time they need to call/email me is when there is either a major update to the CMS, they decide they want to redesign their theme, or they want to add a feature to the site. Many of my clients *could* learn how to do what I do for them, but to them, it's worth their money to have it done for them.

Don't let the comments get you down. You're always going to have ignorant people who want to make themselves feel better by deminishing the accomplishments of others. Just let it slide off your back like water off a ducks back.

Best Regards,

James

I've had a lot of positive comments about my site from members and visitors alot of people have told me I must have put a lot of hard work into making my site what it is, and , I have. I often tell people I use XOOPS and that it's a content maanagement system, but I've never had anyone say that "oh, so you didnt really make the site yourself then".

My site has lots of information and content which I had to research myself and put it on the site myself, of course XOOPS helps ALOT its so much easier than what I used to do, make a html page on dreamweaver, edit anotehr page with the link to the new page and upload them by FTP. I chose XOOPS as probably most people did, because it helps yo update and add content to your site with ease but you still have to have some knowledge about other aspects of web creation, html, maybe a little PHP and how to make graphics. Most XOOPS sites are unique in content and in style and it's because the designer made it that way, themselves.

Of course I use a theme(from 7dana)which is an excellent theme, but theres other things that I have done to make my site unique. I kind of think of XOOPS like flat packed furniture, all the bits are there but you still need to put the work in to get it built, it won't build itself.

As JMorris said don't let these comments get you down, you know how much hard work you put into your site and for every negative comment theres probably a thousand positive ones. Using XOOPS is far more involved than alot of people think, like I said all the bits are there but a site won't build itself.

Happy xoopsing.

This same discussion comes up frequently in 3D graphics communities. "You used Poser and Bryce to make that image? Big deal. I create my own 3D models from scratch in (my warez copy of) 3DS Max."

It's just a matter of how you want to spend your time.

In 3D graphics, if you use an application that takes care of the details that you're not particularly interested in working on, then you can focus your efforts on other areas, such as composition and lighting.

It's the end result that matters, not the tools you use.

Ted

Building a XOOPS website is a bit like building a wristwatch.
We have all the right componants and tools, so in theory anyone should be able to build it ... right?

Of course that's right! so next time a smartarse degrades youir achievements, through them a bunch of XOOPS files and tell em to build it themselves.

Now watch them them retract, shyly ...

Ted, both Lost Doggies and F3 are a credit to your skills and perseverance with Xoops. Anyone who does not see that are only kidding themselves.

Rise above it.

All of the people I've come across don't care that a CMS is doing the hard work. They love the content that is made available and appreciate a clean site with a nice layout.

I've been VERY fortunate, but I completely understand about the nae-sayers. I can remember a lot of it starting out with those that made their HTML sites with Frontpage and those that wrote their HTML by hand in Wordpad warring against each other. Trivial human/inet nature I suppose :/

JMorris I COMPLETLY agree with you. I have done sites the hard way and the easy way too. Some of them started from scratch and like 75% of them using different CMSs (including XOOPS of course ). I also am thrilled by the easy way of updating thing and maintaining the site with a CMS.

Also I have to say this (as you well said) and please remember it people:

Don't let the comments get you down!!! You're always going to have ignorant people who want to make themselves feel better by deminishing the accomplishments of others (in this case ... your accomplishments).

Thanks everyone for your responses.

It might be worth adding that most of the 'negative' remarks have generally been from people who either have or think they have a part in web design. I'#d hate everyone to think that is is a general response that I have had because it isn't. Just a couple out of maybe a hundred or so people. I just wanted to have a better answer for those that made such comments, and now I have! I like the furniture and the watch analagies!

Everyone else I've spoken to who is not invloved in that field (web design) have been 100% appreciative and praiseful with no negative remarks at all, many of whome are themselves computer experts.

I think in my case it's been a couple of smart alecs who are trying to learn about web design 'the hard way' and think that a CMS is a shortcut. Of course it isn't, and if anything the mass of features and custability in XOOPS makes many things quite tricky but the end result far far better. For example, I had to hack an import script to import hundreds of users from another system which for someone who hadn't really done PHP before (other than little hacks here and there) was a big achievement.

Thanks guys. You're great.

Ted