Dear XOOPSers,

For months, I have been in a very bad mood.
It gets even much worse recently.

This morning I just got a PM from Mithrandir, from which I got know why my news for CBB 1.10 and Predator was not approved and also my posts about CBB 1.10 were deleted.

It seems that Mithrandir is neither, like me, aware of what happened to NewBB 2 Team.

As a common module developer, I have no idea what's going on with dev.xoops.org but I just do not feel comfortable any more. To be frank, as a local support webmaster I am not satisfied with the management of xoops.org eith.

Asking me to elaborate? sorry, due to unawareness of how XOOPS is/will be organized/developed, I could not elaborate more but just not feel happy as before.

It is agreed that XOOPS is short of human power. But even with the limited human power, it is not efficiently organized or not respected. Since Jan 2005, you may have learnt departure/disappear of some XOOPSers, including catzwolf, liquid, bd (perhaps temporary). Finally(?) it goes to Marko.

Sorry Mith, I post the topic publically instead of replying your PM just because I do not like back-door discussion which is perhaps one of the reasons that make me BLIND of XOOPS.

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This is the exact reason why I asked you to at least fill me in on the details before going public with this.

You can't tell why, but you are in a bad mood and XOOPS is not organised well enough.

How are we supposed to work with this? How can we make it better?

I can't say how disappointed I am. We may not be perfect in managing this project, but with the feedback we are getting, how can we know what is not going the right way?

When I am unhappy with how things are going, I try to see why they are going that way and what I can do to make it go in the direction, I would like it to. Others don't.
(I don't mean to pick out anyone in particular as I either know or am convinced that the people you mentioned all had/have various reasons for departing or disappearing). That's just the way of life, I guess.

As to what happened to your posts and what happened to the NEWBB2 team, I don't know. I could not follow your link since xoops.org.cn seems down at the moment :(

Xoops is a community product and developers come and go. In order to make XOOPS better, new developers are needed. This will be a task for an active community, spreading the word of xoops.

Martijn

I am not happy with that. What is happening with you guys ? Mithrandir and phppp, pick wanikoo and some other good programmers in PHP and make that situation better. We don't want to lose XOOPS.

One more sign of the bad health of Xoops?
Discuss about it can be therapeutic and define XOOPS diagnostic!?

Well, it seems XOOPS has been sick in its code, in spirit, XOOPS loses its cells... its humanity... for more than two years now..
After several transplants, it's the rejection!
Xoops misses transparency, functional organizations, processes, XOOPS lives with a sick heart, a lung absent and a liver inexistent!

Déjà vu, for those which remember phpnuke and postnuke history, the result will be certainly the same...

- A New Fork !?

Since a long time the secretism generated a cancer.
It's necessary before misfortune propagate, to make recourse to amputation through a realistic truth to preserve specific zones, sites of production for the safeguard of some futur!

- I hope! And should pray for local communities...

P.S. maybe some think that gifts will make it going better! But if somebody drown, you give a green ticket to him or rather the hand!?

I have to agree with the general idea in Mith's post; such vague feedback and critique is not useful for anyone. Obviously you're upset about something. If you actually want to make this discussion public, then please provide details and be specific. Otherwise what's the point?

From our position on the sidelines, we have been very pleased to see the recent improvements in 2.0.10 and the discussion on dev.xoops.org about 2.1.

I agree that the overall development of XOOPS could be more open, in terms of official roadmaps, more detailed public discussion boards, etc. But I have managed various kinds of online community efforts in the past, and I know that outreach like that takes a lot of time and effort over and above the work you put into the product itself, and if there's not a large base of people who are actively contributing, then you can feel like you're wasting your time.

So perhaps it's a chicken/egg problem: there isn't a lot of public resources and information related to the core development, because there aren't a lot of people actually participating in the development, because there isn't a lot of public resources....

As I mentioned in the comments to the XOOPS Foundation news posting, I hope the Foundation can in some ways facilitate more involvement from other developers. Though as I mentioned above, the progress on 2.0.10 and 2.1 seems very much like a step in the right direction. Kudos to Mith for taking the lead there, it seems.

--Julian

I would also have to agree that if you are going to make a statement that you are unhappy with something without giving any reasons/details as to why, then it pretty much defeats the purpose. All saying something such as this will do is create confusion and doubt in the XOOPS community, especially when coming from such a well known and respected developer. I must emphasis that I am not saying you shouldn't be allowed to express your feelings, what I am saying is that you need to realise that your words have a big impact on those looking up to you as a leading developer.

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This would be good, but the signal to noise ratio is rather low in public discussions I find. Discussion is also often done to death, I think the larger problem exists with collating the results of these discussions into something that can be actioned. Ultimately a communication/organisational thing, which comes back to the chicken or the egg analogy.

i think the best course of action here is not a full public discussion..

i believe if you have something to say and u disagree with something then don't beat about the bush.. just say it, and say it clearly, make your point and argument but don't speak it in riddles or in a way that's open to mis-interpretation as that is a sure way of not getting anything solved.

clearly there are people not happy with current situations, and clearly something needs to be done as soon as possible.

what I think would be best is to arrange a time and a date (ok diff timezones, but at least a proper discussion), maybe on the dev site away from this open/public discussion, where ALL and i mean all XOOPS core members/developers, and team members that help to promote and develop XOOPS as a whole etc should put forward their concerns, their arguments and why they are unhappy, and then discuss all these issues 1 by 1 in a sensible manner.. sure somethings probably may not be agreed on, but some compromise maybe in order. but at least lets hear what every1 concerned has to say and then discuss it like adults.. then and only then would it be better for an public discussion..

these are getting to common and we need to address WHY this keeps happening.

I have the same feeling with phppp. So I did decide to stop the development of two modules, lang_tool and porting xt-commerce to XOOPS(I only post the news in Chinese sites before).

I heard some news that the Japanese team would not accept the release from this site and try to develope their own version about latest version of XOOPS. I mixed by more and more different targets from the whole development team.

I meet this problem in some other open source projects. Maybe that's what open source is. I think we need clear rules to follow.

Anyway, phppp, the book was sent for you. :)

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I haven't heard that...

Geez! "I am feeling the same way" is REALLY something we can use.

BE SPECIFIC OR DON'T COMPLAIN!

I'm getting angry here because apparently some people expect us to know everything that is going on everywhere else when noone tells us anything. I'm sorry, I cannot read Chinese. I cannot read Japanese. I can only barely read French. I can NOT know what is going on if noone says anything.

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clear rules of WHAT? What is it that you need? What have you done to suggest this? What have you done to improve matters?

Demanding is easy. Complaining, too. Contributing is difficult.