Wammes,

You also raise some very good points: I think what we all need to realise is that XOOPS is no longer just a project for experienced developers, but ordinary people from the ordinary world are using it to run real websites.

That may sound like an absurd statement, but what it means is that XOOPS has reached a different audience, a wide scale group of non-technical users who want (OOTB)out of the box solutions.

Xoops is probably the best CMS out there for this, which is why there is a shift from development to ordinary user based audiences.

We are aware of this, which is why there has been a thrust to clear concise documentation. That's why I keep asking YOU the question, "how is it going" so that I get a check that we're going in the right direction.

So, to take your point...
Quote:

I am going to modify the category descriptions to include a simple list of whats in there and remove the hyperbole.

There is no search field specific to the FAQ module, BUT... its in the feature list along with keyword function so that a list of related FAQ are displayed on any FAQ if certain keywords are included!

I don't think the FAQ should be so large that it becomes unmangable, FOCUS and QUALITY are the buzzwords. However,
any system you use to retrieve large amounts of data will require some kind of 'intelligent/ diligent' input from the enquirer.

I'm looking into it right now ... Thanks for your comments.

Carnuke, I'm glad you agree with me.

For the FAQ page as it is now I think it is too overwhelming.
If you want your question answered fast, you have to get a fast overview of all the categories in the FAQ. It should give the newbies a idea where there answer can be found. There should be some balance between 'information' and 'overview'. I think its very difficult to find the balance. The names of the categories should be chosen in a way that you don't need to give an extra discription. And categorising the information can give the user the overview.
Maybe consider even one level of categories more. (I don't know if it is possible in smartFAQ) As long as the users can have a overview of the questions they will find their answers.
And I know this is easier said than done I tried to give an example of FAQ categories in this post, but I decided to erase it because I can't think of a logical index myself

I really hope we can give newbies more overview in the xoops.org website. And some time from now we notice that there are no more newbie questions posted in the forums...

The experienced developers will have the forums to their own then

As a newbie I feel compelled to chime in. I rolled out XOOPS to our company with no background in programming but some experience with HTML and simple web stuff. I have a very extensive networking background which gives me a decent technical foundation and understanding of how to obtain the information I need to get e technical project underway and completed. I used the XOOPS site and other resources on the internet entirely as my guide for the implementation. I think I posted 2 times and that was in regards to LDAP.

I think there are many valid points in this thread. The XOOPS site does offer alot of info but it is not the easiest site in the world and is somewhat cluttered. When trying to implement LDAP I spent hours going through the forums, searching, reading and trying everything I could think of. I posted to the forums and Ackbarr kindly pointed me to a post that for the life of me I could never find while doing my research.

From a technical support perspective I think that trying to eliminate newbie posts by referring them to newbie sites or pages is somewhat feudal. Most people have or think they have somewhat of a unique problem. It's only natural to assume that you have done the basics and will require some additional help if you cannot fix it yourself. I actually found it very useful to have many newbie posts to read through as each post is unique and allowed me to glean relevant or new information and techniques from many of them.

Unfortunately, as many have said in these posts, there does not seem to be a simple solution. Simplicity, good search capabilities and continued support from experienced users seems to make the most sense. I appreciate all of the time that many of the most experienced users put into this. For every previously answered newbie post, I think there must be a hundred newbies that used the XOOPS functionality to its fullest and obtained the info they needed to get the job done! For those that didn't, we'll just need to accomodate them as we do in corporate IT environments all the time.

Regards,
Seth

Hi

Just picked up on the threads of this after recording a guitar track!

I reckon the thread is going in the right direction. A sort of we have to try to simplify but equally this is complicated business and over simplifying won't happen.

It would be interesting to take a poll on newbies to see how each got on. At the end of the day, I'm a newbie with some experience and I coped!

Maybe the original post is not possible!

Could we look at twin sites. www.newbie.xoops.org which users can post everything and anything to. Posts will be harvested once a month. Anything useful gleaned, the rest binned! I would be happy to help implement such a project!

Any thoughts.

Rich

I guess my biggest problem with navigating the wealth of XOOPS info in the forums is the very poor(IMHO) results of the search function. I often Google XOOPS instead.

There are some great ideas and comments here - so i wo't repeat lots of them - just highlight what I think we need becuae the biggest and most daunting task facing a newbie is the time involved in searching for jst the right bit of info - and I think that is why they post rather than search-it is much easier. When I first came on board there was no direct guide for newbies other than beginners corner - i had to figure out how to get the best from it intuitively...and have spent hours searching since. Take 'beginners corner' out of the forums or ad a new forum section - newbie, feeling lost and confused. I think there is a difference because of the newbies with prior knowledge of sorts and newbies like me who are here because we believed it would be easy to set up our own sites! perhaps we should change the names to apprentice, novice and qualified tradesperson!

How about
1. a separate page link (or site) direct from xoops.org that says jumps out there and says
New to xoops? Start here.

2. On this page - You could call it - We understand newbies!
New to buidling a website? (appretices)
- introduction - what starting out will be like
- links to specific great faq's and docs for these people - material which does not assume that anything is understood. A read these first kind of approach. Step by basic step.
-dictionary (there's a great module for this)
-downloadable tutorials - installation, troubleshooting, etc (I am working on the Moodle 4 XOOPS - if i can get it installed correctly it might just be the site that is needed!)
-how to get the most from forums

Feeling confident- know your html, php, etc (novices)
- links to specific getting on with it guides that assume the reader has this knowledge.
Introduce FAQ and forums and how to search them effectively.
hot links to xoops.org and how to make the most of xoops.org.

My only fear about all this is that our tradespeople would frequent the apprentice community often so apprentices will still come here and do what they are doing now...not learning by doing but asking questions and expecting magical and immediate help!

my 2 cents worth!

WOW! The feedback and suggestions in this forum have been fantastic! Yet another reason I love this community.

First, I would like to reiterate that my original post was not meant to complain about newcomers, nor was it to say newcomers are lazy. It was intended to suggest alternate means of finding solutions to problems. That being said, I'd like to thank all the newcomers who have given such great feadback and suggestions. I trust that it has been noticed by the right people.

Just to touch on a couple points

RE: Post count redirection...
I really don't think that redirection based on post count is a good idea in any form. Look at it from the perspective of the lurker. I lurked around on these forums for several months prior to registration. By the time I registered, I had already published a production site for a non-profit organization and had already had a couple years experience working with HTML and CSS. If I would have been redirected to a newbie site, I may have had the impression that there was no good help for developers with my experience. There are many members of this site where the same holds true.

RE: Information Overload...
I totally agree that there is a problem with this. However, given the rapid growth of this community, it is anything but suprising. Perhaps reorgainization of the current resources is in order. Even for someone like me, at times it's difficult to sort through it all.

A possible solution (that requires NO hacks) would be to reorganize the blocks. Why not create a menu block titled "Looking for Help?". Under that block would be links to the common sources of help (FAQ, Docs, Search, etc.) and (optionally) a link to a page that lists commonly encounted problems with links to the forum posts that offer a solution (items that haven't been integrated into the FAQ yet). This could easily be accomplished with JackJ's MyPage and a couple blocks.

Basically, just grouping like items. It seems strange to me that FAQ is mentioned in the Main Menu then the Docs are two blocks down, and the Search block is in a different place on every other page. Just group it.

RE: Have you looked here?
I think having a "Have you looked here?" page when users go to post is a terrific idea! Gentle reminders are not a bad thing at all. On a site like this, it is really easy to overlook something that is staring you in the face. That little pause before a user can post might just be enough for the light to go on

RE: Parallel site...
I just don't think it would be good to add YAXS to the Official XOOPS fold. The Admins of this site have enough on their plates. I believe the community as a whole can come up with a solution that will seek to lighten the load on the Admins rather than increase the load. Besides, there are several unofficial sites that are dedicated to helping newcomers.

RE: Fast access to needed info...
I couldn't agree more. An introduction block on the top-center of the homepage that welcomes the user and guides them to the right resources would be ideal, IMHO. If you put the "Looking for Help?" block at the top-right corner, then 2/3 of the first thing visitors will see is how to get help.

I also think it would be good to integrate links to other user-friendly, informative sites as well. XOOPS is fantastic at guiding a user on using Xoops, but there is a wealth of information out there on what XOOPS is made of (PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS, and Smarty).

I can't speak for anyone else, but sometimes it just takes seeing things presented in a different way for me to get the message. There have been a large number of posts on this site that deal with issues related to XOOPS only peripherally. EX: "How do I center align an image in a block?" This is an HTML/CSS issue which is very well documented elsewhere, but a newcomer to web design may not have the first clue where to look for help. Why not guide them to the right sources? Wouldn't that be faster for everyone involved?

OK, my fingers are getting tired and I think I've covered everything I can, for now.

I really hope that all the terrific input and suggestions in this forum will produce a more user-friendly / Admin-friendly Xoops.

Here's to a great 2005 for Xoops!

Hi

I really like where Jenny and JMorris have taken this.

The next question is who and how does it get done?

Surely this sort of work could easily get lost in the amount of posting!?!

I applied to help in terms of docs and community relations but I reckon if JMorris wants to put a team together, I gladly help!

Any thoughts on applying the knowledge learnt?

Rich

richbrown,

Thank you for your comments, but I do not have any authority over anything here. I'm just a regular member.

These suggestions are things that we as a community can discuss and present to the Admins, but ultimately, it is their choice on how to implement it.

Well if something does come from our discussion that would be great - fantastic! Fabulous!....I like the ides of a link under community that says new to XOOPS - or even beginners corner - it took a bit of hunting even to find the right place for beginners when I first started!
In fact as i look at the order of that menu I would like to see it changed to

Home
All about xoops
New XOOPS users
Xoops FAQ
Support forums
xoops links
Module repository
Themes repository
local support
members
Download xoops

It puts the place for newbies in there at the top!

New XOOPS users would need to be written to meet the needs of your wider audience including those self helpers needing something out of the box (like me )

I am also a firm believer in using graphics and LOVE the print screen button! Images convey heaps of information far more quickly than written text (thats why we all have tv's and dvd's and watch movies rather than read books)
and it is much more universal in language...I have a French guy helping me with Moodle for XOOPS - his written instructions are in broken english and make little sense but through capturing screenshots we are communicating really well...they tell a story that can't be told across languages when to people don't speak the same lingo.

The exact same thing goes for those with programming knowhow trying to tell newbies how to fix a problem.

eg insert the code $%^@(*%$ on line 58 in file x.

(Deliberate typing - to illustrate what it looks like to people like me)

were as an illustration of code like the one by irmtfan hereis much more illustrative - the replaced code shown exactly where it should go in a different colour.

So the other thing I would like to see is more illustrative help...I know it is a bit more time consuming but it sure gets the message across to a newbie!

I am happy to help with some such illustrative tutorials but I can only do them on the content I am now confident with. I could help someone with making sure they meet audience needs though...I am a newbie and a teacher!

let's see what we can do in 2005