At the university, I'm currently enrolled in a class, which looks at software products with kernels and modules.

We are using PostNuke as an example software and originally set out trying to make an automatic code converter so that PN would fulfil the demands from w3c regarding accessibility.

It is as good as impossible to make such a thing, because so much of it is manual work. Each image and image link on the site should have a meaningful alt or title text - and who can tell automatically if a text is relevant?

With the flexibility given in XOOPS, it is really not up to the core devs to make XOOPS w3c compliant on the accessibility requirements - only the people supplying the actual contents will be able to do that.

Xoops.org fails the section 508 requirements because there are pics on this site without alternate text, I guess - but how should XOOPS be able to define that? You can still use XOOPS for government sites and similar, but you cannot expect XOOPS to do the job for you, when it comes to defining the contents so it'll pass the test.

And Gadgetmn: I don't think anybody in their right mind would say that CSS is not worth anything. I firmly believe that man to be an idiot or ignorant, who doesn't use CSS on his site, but it is a matter for discussion, whether he should ONLY use CSS.

XOOPS is flexible and that is a strength. Complying with XHTML/CSS 2.0 is a must. Complying with additional w3c demands is up to the user - and by user, I mean site admin.

As far as usability and alt tags are concerned, I guess when an image is inserted from the Image Manager, XOOPS could automatically include the name of the image in the alt tag, rather than leaving the alt tag blank. (Not the filename, the actual name of the file that you generate when you upload the file).

Other than that, most compliance issues are related to themes and templates. There is nothing to stop anyone from creating a theme like the plone site in Xoops.

(And, while those validation links at the plone site are nice, it does not mean that other sites created with plone would automatically validate... unless there are no other themes for plone. )

Herko and Mithrandir make some good points here. Yes tables are fine for tabular data and CSS needs to be applied appropriately.

Unfortunately, supplying any old alt tag won't do. The last thing a blind person wants to hear is "spacer.gif", "logo.gif", "curvededge.gif". Presentations should have a ""/null alt tag. Meaningful images should carry meaningful descriptions. Instead of "Xoops Logo" it should say "Link back to home page". the other downside is that browsers wrongly interpret alt tags as tooltips, and developers cannot help themselves to use them that way.

It's also a valid point that accessibility is not the responsibility of the kernel, but of the developer/designer. However it must be possible for the kernel to assist in making this happen. Each menu item should carry a title= and the kernel must allow developers to maintain these, otherwise the dynamic elements will never be accessible.

There's a happy medium. It's just a case of finding it and unless we try we won't find out...

Cheers,

GagdetMn

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I agree. That's why I said that the alt tag should be the name of the image in image manager, rather than the file name. (Alternatively, there could be an alt field in the image manager, for the designer to put what they want there). Currently, in the image manager, a designer can give images any name that is preferred. You could even name your image "link to home" if you wanted to. This works independently of the file name.

I'm sorry I was not easy to understand the first time around.

This is a great discussion. I didn't even know anything about Section 508 until someone mentioned it and I began googleing.

Yes, complying with W3C standards is the direction I think XOOPS should go.

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Herko, when do you think that will be done? Alot of us want to know

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This theme will not be released, as it will be the new corporate theme for the xoops.org websites (and we want to keep it exclusively for those sites). We haven't done any really deep testing yet, but so far, by adjusting the theme and template code, the pages validate very well.

I can send you the theme for sudy and examples however, when it is done, if you won't use the actual theme itself...

Herko

It would be very useful to release a theme that has all these issues sorted out, which people can use as a starting point / good example for building their own. Even if it is a different one or just a 'bare bones' version...perhaps it would facilitate the development of a collection of other compliant themes in future

I am trying to put together an IE 5 friendly theme for public use at the moment, though progress is slow since its a learn-as-I go job.

Oh, finally we talk about the same problem, the standard and the accessibility of a web site! we have this problemi in Italy, after august 2005 with Stanca's Ordinance for Public Administration's Web sites. Now we've solved the problem with all layout ordered by CSS (if you want our theme you can download it on http://www.xplaza.it , and we work hardly in order to publish XHTML 1.0 Strict (not transitional, this is the law in Italy!)...

But now we have a second problem, with backoffice accessibility. I would like to ask to all the community if there are other XOOPS user with the same problem, and how can we solve it working together...

Thanks a lot and take a look to http://www.xplaza.it, you can download modules and themes and documentation (sorry, just in italian), just registering...

Best regards,
XPlazateam...from Italy!

I agree with you, we have created a theme and two sites complient W3C XHTML 1.0 Strict, you can check it on http://www.comunevolvera.it (Public Administration), and http://www.xplaza.it (where you can download the theme W3C complient, after registering).

In Italy, with Stanca Ordinance, accessibility is a hard work for web publisher and web site administrator, but there are some new CMS (not open source) very interesting...which can help user to "publihs" accessible sites, producing accessible HTML Page, take a look at http://www.fruibile.it (sorry, it's just in italian)..

Fruibile uses the editor Xstandar:

"The editor generates clean XHTML Strict or 1.1, uses CSS for formatting, and ensures the clean separation of content from presentation. Markup generated by XStandard meets the most demanding accessibility requirements. The editor's cool features include drag & drop file upload, spell checking and an image library that integrates tightly with your CMS."

It would be great to have the same editor but...open source!!!
We love Xoops, we promote XOOPS (in Italy we were exhibitors in SMAU - http://www.smau.it - and ComPA - http://www.compa.it , with XOOPS solution), but accessibility is really important for us, also in the back office!!

Best regards,
Xplazateam

Hallo,
Two quick tips:
- there was another very interesting thread about this subject recently here
- there have been a number of css based themes made over the last year or so - the only one I can remember is from studioC but I couldn't find a download link on his labyrinth of sites.
Regards,
Alan