I've been hearing alot on web standards and how important it is to abide by web standards when it comes to CSS and themes/templates, but one question I haven't seen on the XOOPS forums is 'how much does the XOOPS themeing framework abide by web standards?'

I need a simple design for my site, but I can't seem to find a designer that can design a XOOPS theme similar tohttp://www.simplebits.com

If anyone can help me and tell me about Xoops' themeing framework, it would clear up alot for me. Additionally, if you can help me find a designer that can do something similar tohttp://www.simplebits.com , that would be a greater plus...

-d

Generally speaking, the web standard compliance in templates and themes is dependant on the theme/template maker.

There is nothing to hinder someone from making a proper theme - anything you can do with normal HTML and CSS, you can do with a XOOPS theme.

I can make a theme for you, depending on, how much I have to work with. If I can steal anything and everything from simplebits.com, you can have it by the end of the week for a fairly low price. If I have more constraints, it'll take a bit longer and be a bit more expensive, but you are welcome to hit me a PM or go to JKP Software Development for more info about my company.

Xoops themes and themeing(is that a word) framework should be xhtml compliant. There are some additional threads in these forums relating to this topic.

try this: Recent Thread

I would like to believe that all of the "Core" modules (delivered with the product) are also xhtml compliant. The themes themselves consist of xhtml templates into which content is inserted by system and module code.

The problems start when a "third" party module delivers non-compliant content into the templates and then a page so create is not compliant. The skills of the module developers ranges from absolutely wizard, to mostly novice, and the quality of the content insertion code varies tremendously. Also, many modules are simply "wraps" of existing free-standing php scripts, and so they may or may not deliver standards compliant content.

As for the simple bits site, there should be not problem creating a theme like this. My recommendation is that you find a theme with a similar structure (layout) and then you modify the css first to change the markup and color scheme, then seek to modify the templates to get closer to the look you seek.

If I were a designer (with skill ) I would be happy to help, but if you were to look at the sites (and themes) that I have created you would understand why I say that I am not a designer (with skill ).

In addition to what's already been said: XOOPS uses tables extensively for layout. If you want to revamp XOOPS to be XHTML compliant _and_ ditch tables-for-layout, then you'll have quite a job ahead of you. It can be done, though (I've done it for an intranet site), but requires some serious template coding and sometimes PHP-hacking.

Have you an example of Theme that's XHTML/CSS compliant.
It would be interesting for all.

Where have you had problems in the theme conversion to CSS ?

Thanks

I love CSS, but the big push to CSS LAYOUT kinda bothers me.

The last two static sites I built were table free. A good example of one is McTevia & Associates. It was the right thing to do for these sites, and helped to seperate the look and feel from content. Really I feel like CSS only sites are a kind of poor mans templating system. They help but are not nearly as powerful as a real templating system like Smarty

There has been so much effort to seperate model(content or data) from view(look and feel) via MVC and the like, that something else is often overlooked. The seperation of look and feel from layout (esentialy dividing the View component of MVC into seperate pieces). The HUGE advantage of a templating system like Smarty is the seperation of the View (look and feel from layout), as well as the Model from the View.

Smarty does not have to use tables. You could build Smarty templates only in CSS. This has some advantages, but also some disadvangates.

The bulk of code already coded with tables in Smarty for XOOPS indicates that is is not going total CSS any time soon. Nor should it. There is very little to be gained from doing so right now.

That being said, if you are designing a new module you could make all of you templates in CSS only(table free). There is nothing stoping you.

JMass

Quote:

It's this kind of negative comment which is going to prevent an environment where sites "just work" from actually happening. There is nothing "poor" about CSS. In fact it's achieved what software developers have been trying to achieve for 10's of years in just a few. The only thing stopping "web standards" from taking hold is the inability for browser makers to interpret the standards correctly.

To know that I only have to develop a single UI for my site, regardless of platform or browser is a god send and when you actually realise that it has been possible to do this since 2000 you have to start wondering why do I still mess around with complex tables, bloated markup script and wasteful "spacer" images that just clog up the web.

If all sites were compliant, the amount of wasted traffic flying round the net would be reduced by at least 50%. Just think how much quicker sites would load and the net would run in general (just think how muc more spam could squeeze through the pipes )

Forget about backwards compatibility and think about future compatibility. I've come to the conclusion that my sites should look as best they can in the latest browsers and merely be "acceptable" in earlier versions. Those who strive to make their sites identical in all browsers are only making life difficult for themselves.

We all know that NN4.0 and IE4.0 suck, and so do the people using them. Why should offer the best interface we can, without sacrificing those who have taken the trouble to upgrade by bloating the page weight for the sake of a handful of users - which if you look at your web logs will see it is just that!!!

Quote:

Excuse me? Smarty does not replace CSS but compliments it. I looked at the site you quoted (and the code) and smarty would have fitted in nicely there. All your menu's and CSS drop downs could have been pulled together a handful of lines of Smarty.

I'm convinced that CMS's such as XOOPS should be taking a stand and be pushing web standards. How many times have you seen users quibbling over uploaded themes because "they don't work in this browser" or "that browser".

Also, if XOOPS want to be here in the future then it will have to adopt CSS/XHTML as the W3C starts to wind down for support for elements such as <b> and even <img>. If the engine doesn't adapt then it will not survive.

And what about accessibility? Just run the XOOPS home page throughhttp://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/html/en/index.jsp. The exact response is

Quote:

For all you Americans out there forget using XOOPS for any government sites as it fails Section 508 big time. And for the rest of us, it's only a matter of time until accessibility becomes a factor of our day-to-day life.

Remember - Google is the webs biggest blind user. Do you really want your site to be inaccessible to that user?

This is not a dig a Xoops. XOOPS is cool. I love it. I have spoken with the developers directly and know what effort has been put in to get it this far. To make its skin web standards complient shouldn't be too much of a task as we have access to the skin and all (well almost all) the temlpates, and as long as you create a "transitional" theme, there should be no problems with non-compliant modules.

However, if XOOPS turned out to be the first compliant open source CMS and the CMS evangelists discovered this, then XOOPS would be hailed from on high and perceived as a true adopter of the standards and a preacher of the future.

I plan to try and create a XOOPS CSS/XHTML theme based around the default theme. From here it should simply be a matter of creating new style sheets (take a look athttp://www.csszengarden.com/ and change its theme). I'll let you know the URL when I get it up and running and look forward to your comments, quotes and suggestions (and also your replies to this post...)

Cheers,

GadgetMn

Quote:

There is already acompliant open source CMS. Look at the www.plone.org and scroll to the bottom of page and you will see this links:

# Section 508
# WAI-AAA
# Valid XHTML
# Valid CSS
# Usable in any browser


Also the plone doesn't use any tables, just CSS positioning.

drroso,

Thanks for that. Hadn't really thought about Plone. The idea of using Python and Zope is the biggest downer for me on that one as it has to run as the web server...

But you are right. The plone home page is clean, crisp an "modern" looking. Now why can't we apply that to our XOOPS sites...

Cheers,

GadgetMn

We're working on a XOOPS theme that validates XHTML 1.0 Transitional and CSS 2.0. It's basically themes and templates. Tables aren't bad, when used for tabular data, not for positioning elements. XOOPS may not validate by default, but it's just a case of creating valid templates and a valid theme. I don't see the problem here

Herko