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JeromeKervie

Just popping in
Posted on: 2008/2/2 10:03
JeromeKervie
JeromeKervie (Show more)
Just popping in
Posts: 3
Since: 2008/2/2 8
#41

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

Quote:

Will_H wrote:
Gee, your opinions hold a lot of weight around here. Mr. I'm too much of a chicken #OOPS# to post under my real account.

This is XOOPS. This is what you and your buddies have made of it. :)


It's my turn!
I love you and the way you show us your "creativity".

Will_H

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2008/2/2 10:06
Will_H
Will_H (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 1786
Since: 2004/10/10
#42

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

Most creative thing I have done since becoming a member of this community in 2004 was saying this.

Goodbye XOOPS.

Sublime

Just popping in
Posted on: 2008/2/2 10:11
Sublime
Sublime (Show more)
Just popping in
Posts: 99
Since: 2006/5/23
#43

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

Quote:
Benchmark our themes? Why not start where the trouble is... With the module devs. You devs are so insistent that we stay out of from under the hood, yet its ok for you to come out and run your keys down the side of our fresh paint job.

Yeah exactly. Everyone is trying to workaround the problem rather than just fix it. "Hey guys lets all theme like kris!"...um, no thanks.

The problem that doesn't exist in other CMS's is the lack of a uniform module template. I've never used a CMS in my life where I actually had to modify just about all of the module's templates to get them to look right.

This topic is sitting on 2 basic points and I think a couple people are getting those points mixed up and are getting confused.

The first point being that kris wants everyone and their brother to use morpho and hes wanting to make that the standard template. That is unacceptable because that template contains a TON of useless bloated code. Isn't the point of a base template to be a SMALL framework to build around? Thats exactly the opposite of what morpho is.

The second point. Standardizing every class that a themer can use is retarded. First of all, the reason that you need something like this is so that all modules flow, correct? Standardizing every class isn't the answer though. Changing module code to use MINIMAL classes and allowing module devs to wrap ANY theme around their module with a generic function call IS an answer. I gave an example a few pages back, but since you missed that one, heres another.

function OpenTable() { This is where I'm going to put my html code
                                    For the images/style of the top and the left side of my wrapper
}

function CloseTable() { This is where I'
m going to put my html code
                                    
For the images/style of the bottom and the right side of my wrapper
}



Now when a module dev is making his new modulehe templates it thusly:

OpenTable(); <---that will wrap the top and left part of my wrapper appropriately
     This is where the module developer is going to template his content
     Using 
.row1, .row2, .even, .oddtdtrhrdivspanetc etc etc...
     
Because my theme will have those defined in the style.css as they are CORE classes
     
And will not negatively affect the way my theme works with the module.
CloseTable(); <---that will wrap the bottom and right part of my wrapper appropriately


Marco lets get real here. I can contribute till I'm blue in the face. I and plenty of other people have contributed...rather, attempted to contribute information that would be beneficial to xoops. It ALWAYS comes down to some higher individual saying "No, you're wrong because we said so and we're going to continue to do everything our own way without considering what the community thinks and not bother even asking them because that's just how we roll. If you don't like it, leave, we don't care". So I figured if I bitch about what COULD make XOOPS better long enough someone will either do something about it or just ban me so they dont have to listen to it anymore, so I just hope for the best and see what happens.

@JeromeKervie

It's pretty funny when people don't have the balls to say something under their own account in fear of what someone might think of them. Grow up.

donny

Just popping in
Posted on: 2008/2/4 23:44
donny
donny (Show more)
Just popping in
Posts: 21
Since: 2006/11/5
#44

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

I've read the topic (a lot to read :)), and I think I do understand the problems.

I had my fingers into some designing, and some (more) in developing and mostly in trying to get a lot of old things to work on new servers. I've tried to adapt some modules to look good on my site, but some even had hard coded html attributes, not even classes! so I gave up on some of them.

and I would also like to support the designers. we need some guidelines for the developers. but then again I do understand how hard it is to do that. I had to give up on a bunch of modules because my servers are php5, and most weren't converted yet, most aren't even now. don't know what would happen if we draw the line and drop the design for all the old modules. but I do know that at some point we will have to, or just give up on everything.

I think we need to think of some kind of a transition. meaning making a great new system, that will be good for design, and also good for developers with a nice guide of what classes to use with a few examples. they could even use just tables and I guess we'll live with that.
but also there would be a need for some kind of a support for old modules, maybe even some kind of a secondary theme? maybe that is where some kind of a template like the ones proposed could be used, to cover those problems. I know it is not nice to have some modules look different, but then again sometimes you just need them to work more than you need them to look nice...

I know I didn't give any real answers, but I hope that I gave some points to think about. I hope.

Sublime

Just popping in
Posted on: 2008/2/7 20:00
Sublime
Sublime (Show more)
Just popping in
Posts: 99
Since: 2006/5/23
#45

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

The fact that no one has entered the "contest" pretty much says it all. Whatever happens, I've lost my toleration of a complete disregard of community input. Tired of decisions that SHOULD be made by the community of themers instead being made without consultation by a "Design Team Leader" who has made it very clear that he has NO clue what he's doing. Tired of his decisions being justified because they're backed by the "Design Team".....a "Design Team" that doesn't actually have any designers in it. Tired of topics that could potentially improve XOOPS like this one dying because no one actually cares about any opinion but their own. Not going to deal with the ridiculousness of this anymore.

/quit

Burning

Theme Designer
Posted on: 2008/2/7 22:07
Burning
Burning (Show more)
Theme Designer
Posts: 1163
Since: 2006/8/22
#46

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

Good luck Sublime... It seems that there is a "personnal issue", one more... That's Xoops, what else ?


Just a precision : take a look to the code of Compare it to morphogenesis code. So you see the same lines...

There are coming from :

Quote:

/* Thanks to Snow77, Skalpa and Leostotch for the initial work, Dugris for help */
/* Mor.pho.GEN.e.sis version 2.0 by kris (http://www.xoofoo.org and http://www.frxoops.org) */
/* file name : style.css (version 2.0) - 22 mai 2007 */



Edit : sorry I was wrong, there is a new line
Quote:
<!-- End ofHack by marcan <InBox Solutions> for CondoLegal //-->
Still learning CSS and... english

snow77

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2008/2/11 17:21
snow77
snow77 (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 864
Since: 2003/7/23
#47

Re: define Standard Templates for theme developers - your idea

I believe that Kris_fr has meant good with this contest; and consider that not much productfull dialog has occurred to the points that have been disagreed on. The point of division is on using the templates he mentions as base for the submitted themes.

I don't fully agree on this either but I do see Kris's intentions and agree partly. The con's are: as incama had mentioned, that they limit the creativity and development of the code a theme considered a "standard" can have, because it can always be made differently or optimized and be just as good, and there has been a lack of defining the goals of the contest as Stefan had mentioned. Among the missing objectives....I'd include this one: The theme is a tutorial, in the way it's coded. This way it is an example for those that know less to learn with it, comprehend the XOOPS theme structure, and have a clean, manegeable, compliant css + html. It is the theme(s) that will represent xoops, no?

Still, this is "just a theme" example, not the "ultimate theme example". Also it is "just one of many contests" whose author chose for it to be this way. The way I see it, it's just Kris's effort to make a theme selection where in first place comes the code quality. Yet this is debatable.

- I do believe morphogenesis or css100 is a good example of code.
- I do not believe this should be obligatory for a contest looking to retrieve the best web design developers code, even though if I were to chose a template I'd chose one of them because they handle the html + css in the best structure I've seen in xoops. Still new templates can be done just as good.

Morphogenesis is not old instead it is new and very few have come close to understanding it. If we focus on the theme.html which is the root of all the design, if the main elements are classified in a set of well defined div's, as morphogenesis is (with the exception it has 1 table), or css100-morpho (which is completely tableless) we obtain an template pattern for the system to have a standard in quality. Now that is what Kris is looking forward to. Quality. Considering the objective, I think the contest conditions acceptable as long as the obligatory file is just the theme.html. After all this won't be the last contest....

Besides what's wrong with having standard classes an id's for the basic elements and create a basic template with this as an optional XOOPS resource? What if having standard classes will permit skinning the admin?

donny
Quote:

More than a year ago Technigrafa started this thread: "Holy Grail CSS Wireframe Theme". Concerning themes, members have always had the opportunity to show and share their work. So if the issue is defining a template the opportunity is open for others to submit alternative framework html templates.

The main principle of the contest should continue, respecting the decision of Kris of having a design using the morphogenesis framework, in case of lack participants, I suggest that the judges analyze all the morphogenesis based themes in the past year and just select 1 from there. And start a new contest for the other two themes with the option of being freely coded as long as they are

- Tableless.
- Use all the updated xo-code smarty variables for displaying content... including the LCR feature .
... valid, etc.

Giving the chance for submissions of new coded framework templates.