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11
BlueStocking
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

Script_fu,


FYI: https://xoops.org/modules/repository/submit.php
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
12
BlueStocking
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

Back on track...

Quote:

1) The initial installation succeeded. At this point I was optimistic but the feeling soon passed.

ANSWER: 1._General_principles follow through to download the latest package. (updated by phppp)

2) I have had XOOPS for only a week but I have already had to upgrade it before even working out how to make it work.

ANSWER:
(This step would have been avoided. )

3) There is nothing installed except the system module

ANSWER: 1.1._The_XOOPS_core Quoting: To sum up, then, the XOOPS core comprises a lot of power hidden under calls to classes or functions, provides the functional framework, the templating engine, the handling of languages and much more. It accomplishes part this through the System module, which is the only one installed in a default XOOPS package, as it is through this module that the webmaster decides what other modules will be part of the live site.

and it takes a long time to find the documentation on how to remedy this.

ANSWER: Category:ModuleDevelopment A list of module developers. Ideally, they will help to document their own modules... if they wish end users to find and use them.

There appear to be many empty wiki pages scattered around the place which confuse the documentation search trail.

ANSWER: <<-- For that I apologize, and would be grateful for any help you might give me toward making the wiki more Beginner Friendly.

The requirement to search documentation and do additional manual uploads/installs to get ANY functionality is definitely beginner unfriendly.

ANSWER: <<-- Wizanda has a version of XOOPS that comes with pre-selected modules ready to install at the time you install xoops. No shopping for modules.

4) The first module I tried uploading, membros_online,
does not show up in my modules admin. I had put it in the modules directory, which now has two folders: system, and membros_online. I understood from my reading that this was the right place for it? At this point I am stuck and I cannot proceed any further with Xoops.

ANSWER: <<-- my research shows that membros_online is an XOOPS Cube module, not this xoops, so it is not compatable with the newest version of xoops. You need to visit xoopscube.com for help on it.

5) Despite reading voluminous forum about SSL problems, I failed to make the SSL login work. I could not find any clear instructions anywhere as to which file to copy into
mysite.org/secure/ SSL enabled directory, or what else to do.

ANSWER: I cannot help you with this but I am sure there are some here who can and will offer some useful advice.

6) Your forum confirmation email and password reminder had arrived in my spam folder. This added a few more hours of frustration while waiting for it to arrive.

ANSWER: Now, we really are pretty good at some things, but we cannot control what your mailbox believe to be spam... Just teasing, of course!

Rating so far: 1/6



Now, I know a lot of this may not be the best information, but right now it is the best I can do....

With time I hope to do better...

BlueStocking.
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
13
script_fu
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:
Back on track...

The requirement to search documentation and do additional manual uploads/installs to get ANY functionality is definitely beginner unfriendly.

ANSWER: <<-- Wizanda has a version of XOOPS that comes with pre-selected modules ready to install at the time you install xoops. No shopping for modules.

The first module I tried uploading, membros_online,
does not show up in my modules admin. I had put it in the modules directory, which now has two folders: system, and membros_online. I understood from my reading that this was the right place for it? At this point I am stuck and I cannot proceed any further with Xoops.

ANSWER: <<-- my research shows that membros_online is an XOOPS Cube module, not this xoops, so it is not compatable with the newest version of xoops. You need to visit xoopscube.com for help on it.

BlueStocking.


Wizanda XOOPS install is a custom version. It has been modified big time. I am not sure if you will be able to keep compatibility with XOOPS core if you use it. Lets let wizanda chime in on that before you go pointing new users to other versions of xoops.

Membros online is a old XOOPS module that doesn't work anymore not a cube version.
14
wizanda
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 12:01

  • wizanda

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1585

  • Since: 2004/3/21


Sorry for not speaking earlier…..
The system has loads of changes, its XOOPS 2.2.5Z as Phppp told me, which was what we were working on, with Skalpa at the start of the year….
So I thought I would clean and optimize it, adding the latest Smarty and revising much of it…
The modules had been on my site for ages and so had been regularly fixed and changed, as new ideas were discussed and then me W3C fixing them…..
I was going to release them, yet with constant battles and no clear way to release them, I just made my own project in the end as it was beyond me how to submit to Xoops….
These are part of everyone’s work, just W3C cleaned, MySQL optimized and fixes where needed…..
I just feel left out of XOOPS and also a beginner who was trying to be helpful……
Really it’s not a selection of XOOPS modules for beginners, yet fixing all the errors and making my own working site, yet allowing everyone else to see the fixes….
15
Vargr
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 13:10

  • Vargr

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 130

  • Since: 2003/6/19


Just a few loose thoughts with reference to the original post...


When I several years ago installed XOOPS for the first time it came with a lot of modules included. So I started out with those and made a site which worked and did what it should - today I would tweak the site far more to fit my needs.

Without any prior knowledge I managed to get the site up and running within 2 weeks - this meant a lot of trial and error and reading of documents found in the most obscure places - not to mention frustration and long nights. Luckily since I had foolishly promised my boss that I could do it in 14 day (that will never happen again).

I never felt XOOPS was userUNfriendly - only that I wasn't up to the task those two weeks.

Today XOOPS comes with only the core system - the System Module - and no extra modules.

And I must say I prefer that. Perhaps it is because I have come to know XOOPS better, perhaps because I now realize that I like probably most users quickly decide upon which modules work for me and which modules do not and so will choose different modules from what would come pre-packaged.

Perhaps the solution would be a "cut-to-bone" solution of XOOPS as of today and then a page with the officiel "standard" modules that are maintained and kept compatable with the latest XOOPS. Then beginners could go there and find modules for their first site; modules that should give them no problems. There might even be a link on the XOOPS Admin page to this page, a kin to the "XOOPS News Link" found there at the top.



As for automated updates of modules I am not sure I like the idea of that. I will hasten to say, that my understanding of the internal workings of XOOPS are - to say the least - very superficial and thus I might only be displaying my ignorance here - but anyways:

My impression is that when a module is updated, so the templates and the themes of that module are also updated. That means that the work I have done with exactly the templates and the theme-files are erased - resetting and destroying the hard work I have done to make my site look just like I want it. You know - a heading in red, a line right-adjusted in stead of left, and thousands of other smaller and bigger issues.
I am worried that an automated module-update system would trash all my work and make my site's layout take a roler coaster ride as I slowly rebuilt the layout until the next automated update comes along.

But I could understand that some of the really heavy XOOPS-guys are looking into the feasibility of such a functionality (I believe phppp was among them?) so I expect such concerns and problems are being taken into consideration.


With all that said and done, I must say that XOOPS is actually quite straight forward and easy to use - also as a beginner (my opinion), but as with all new endeavours it is a good idea to have a few lifelines when starting for the first time: Documentation; fora; a good friend, who has been there before.
Vargr
- 狼 -
16
Quest
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 14:37

  • Quest

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1034

  • Since: 2005/11/19


Vargr

Quote:
My impression is that when a module is updated, so the templates and the themes of that module are also updated. That means that the work I have done with exactly the templates and the theme-files are erased - resetting and destroying the hard work I have done to make my site look just like I want it. You know - a heading in red, a line right-adjusted in stead of left, and thousands of other smaller and bigger issues.


The newer template functionality of around XOOPS version 2.14 allows XOOPS users to place templates inside their theme folder. Relieving the need to clone the default template set. This was and is a great addition to the XOOPS functionality which eleviates (if used) the problems you mention from occuring during module updates or XOOPS upgrades. The XOOPS user's modified templates are within the used theme folder therefore they are not in danger of overide and can easily be downloaded with your theme folder onto your PC for safe keeping.

Here is an excellent Tutorial on Template Overide feature introduced with XOOPS 2.014, posted by alain01

https://xoops.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3367

Quest
17
Vargr
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 15:17

  • Vargr

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 130

  • Since: 2003/6/19


@ Quest

Thank you for the information and the link.

Interesting reading and yes, it seems to address my concerns.

I will have to read it once or twice more before I am sure I completely understand it and before I dare make changes. But certainly worthwhile reading.

Thanks again.
Vargr
- 狼 -
18
whoops
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 16:28

  • whoops

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 10

  • Since: 2007/12/30


As the person who started this topic, let me attempt to sum up a little.

It may well be that I was looking for an easy way where there is none. I know that I am prone to complaining too much, so thank you for taking it in good spirit.

I don't mind innocently stirring a can of worms about the module repositories and everyone chipping in about that. You all have every right to do so and it is kind of relevant to my original post. The way I see it, I respect you all. I do not think that anybody had intentionally set out to be disagreeable or unhelpful or anything like that.
Wizanda's post made the nature of the problem clear. Here is a helpful guy with the best interests of XOOPS users at heart (and far from a beginner) and yet he is feeling left out and left to his own devices. By all accounts, he is not the only one. Is this because XOOPS admins are nasty and mean people? I don't think so either. I see this entirely as an unfortunate and inevitable consequence of your decision to wash your hands of ANY reponsibility over the modules. Of course it leads to fragmentation and misunderstandings!

I am not questioning your wisdom in adopting a distributed development model and letting users choose their own modules. However, there ought to be a happy half way house between total central control over everything on one hand and total anarchy on the other hand. You are currently heading for the latter.

Coming back to user's perspective: anarchy is not good for users. In all the above helpful posts I did not see any overriding organisational or technical reasons, that would hold, as to why you could not have an automated module uploader/updater or at least a centrally maintained list of modules known to work with the latest version of Xoops. (I still think that the former is a much better solution for not a lot of extra effort and may even be easier in the long run).

I realise that two weeks hard work by a technical expert can achieve miracles and may make the current XOOPS work but I think most new users would prefer an easier alternative, if there was one.
19
phppp
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 17:17

  • phppp

  • XOOPS Contributor

  • Posts: 2857

  • Since: 2004/1/25


Quote:

Shine wrote:
So as to question 1...... no official modules, no automated module installer/updater.


Technical reply: It does not require a module to be official to have automated installer/updater in case it follows some specifications, which are being designed.
20
whoops
Re: Beginners Unfriendly

  • 2008/1/1 17:29

  • whoops

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 10

  • Since: 2007/12/30


I agree with phppp. That is what I meant in my post #8:
"Nor do I agree that having an installer is necessarily synonymous to having official modules."

I am very glad to hear that the specifications (or standards, as I called them) are in hand already!

phppp, maybe you would like to post a link here to the forum where the specs are being discussed, if it is public?
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