11
ozp11
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 0:21

  • ozp11

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 74

  • Since: 2003/6/2 1


fbs777 doesnt understand the point of my discussion...

if linux is a kernel, why there is ubuntu? why ubuntu is growing so fast?

because its easy to operate.

So that´s my point. Making thinks easier is better


Making thinks easier for the XOOPS sites users and making things easier for the XOOPS users.

Too many adaptations is something that we have to avoid, since the more you adapt the more hard is to keep it up with the upgrades.

My site is very adapted and still not too easy from the users point of view.
Upgrade now is almost a nightmare

I have this block in my site (submit news, articles etc)
but this is not enough
The "add contend" feature must be at the user own page.

Its not "help us" idea, but "show your contend" idea.


Xoops is for community, just read the XOOPS front page.


But I dont want XOOPS or a system that is a orkut copy. I want "orkut like" features.

Replace orkut with your favorite social network

web 2.0 is a fact, but web 2.0 is not just about thecnology, its about behavior and filosofy

12
davidl2
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 1:27

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


Quote:

ozp11 wrote:

I have this block in my site (submit news, articles etc)
but this is not enough
The "add contend" feature must be at the user own page.


Use "MyPage" or a similar module, and make this a page that users can choose using multimenu.
Make the "submit content" a block on this page.

13
fbs777
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 1:38

  • fbs777

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 48

  • Since: 2005/1/9 4


Quote:

ozp11 wrote:
fbs777 doesnt understand the point of my discussion...

if linux is a kernel, why there is ubuntu? why ubuntu is growing so fast?

because its easy to operate.

So that´s my point. Making thinks easier is better

Again, you dont understand:
Linux = Kernel
Ubuntu = Distribution

Ubuntu use the same 2.6.x kernel (linux) of any other dist. like Suse, Mandriva, Debian, Kurumin... The difference from one dist. to other dist. is the programs, modules, window manager, etc.

But the important is: All Dist. use Kernel 2.6.x. Thats the point: One kernel, many dist. with different proposes...

If was possible to compare, this can be the most close:
Linux (Kernel) = XOOPS (core)
Ubuntu = XOOPS + modules + themes

In Ubuntu or any other Dist., none of visible thing is "linux". The window manager of ubuntu is Gnome. In Kubuntu, the window manager is KDE. And the X server (server who admin. the window manager) can be XF86free or Xorg.

So, this is the order of function in Ubuntu:
kernel (linux) -> Xorg -> GNOME -> Firefox

As you can see, the linux (kernel) in this case is only a bridge between hardware and the X server.
Xorg, GNOME and Firefox are just third party programs using a kernel to comunicate with hardware. And the name of this kernel is Linux...

As you can see, what make a linux distribution like Ubuntu so good is the third party programs and modules, not the kernel...


Quote:
Too many adaptations is something that we have to avoid, since the more you adapt the more hard is to keep it up with the upgrades.

My site is very adapted and still not too easy from the users point of view.
Upgrade now is almost a nightmare

If you want to make the site looks like orkut, of course you need a lot of adaptations and hacks.
But if you want to create a normal content site (like any other made in xoops, phpnuke, phpBB, IPB, etc), you dont need to do adaptations or hacks, only need to change some words in language files in case of business site.

How many webmasters need to adapt or hack the defaut XOOPS to work like a comunity site?
Just a few, i think...

Quote:
I have this block in my site (submit news, articles etc)
but this is not enough
The "add contend" feature must be at the user own page.

Thats the point: YOU think is necessary include this in the user account too. I think its enough just a simple block...
Of couse the dev team can include this in future versions, but i think isnt important, because if you can use this feature with a simple block, the dev team must work in new features who cant be included just creating a new block or changing the theme/template...

Quote:
Its not "help us" idea, but "show your contend" idea.

Show your content already exist, if you go to user account you can see all the posts, news, downloads submitted by this user...

Quote:
Xoops is for community, just read the XOOPS front page.

Quote:

Replace orkut with your favorite social network

Xoops is not to work as a social network...
I think XOOPS is for community, but community around the site content. For example: a site of a band. Is a site with news, downloads, pictures, etc about this band. So, with a forum and blog, plus the comments in news, pictures, downloads, you have a community site.


Quote:
web 2.0 is a fact, but web 2.0 is not just about thecnology, its about behavior and filosofy

Ok, but why drupal is web 2.0 and XOOPS is web 1.0?

And which CMS work exactly like you want? In XT you told XOOPS its old comparing with other CMSs, but i dont see many evolution in the other CMS and forum like phpBB/IPB comparing to xoops.

Today dev team released the 2.0.16 version. This will be the last 2.0.x version.
With luck, you will see some social network features in next generation of xoops. With luck...

14
Speed
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 6:37

  • Speed

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 310

  • Since: 2004/5/18


Quote:
You can change the display names of modules and blocks already. Modules in module admin and blocks in blocks admin (edit the block and change its display name.)

I know. That's what my example there clearly says.

What I was getting at was creating one place to make cosmetic changes. Right now to customize the text on a site, you need to go into module admin, then block admin, various general settings for other names, edit a php file and adjust language files if needed. There are a lot of places to rename things.

You and I know where to make those adjustments without thinking twice. New users on the other hand have a bewildering array of options -- some of which are very non-intuitive -- that are spread out all over.

I don't know the best approach, but I am more than willing to give some suggestions. I'm hoping that people smarter than me can then refine and implement them if they make sense. I don't completely agree with ozp11's statements or reasons for wanting change, but they are a good starting point for a discussion.

That all said, what would work better than the existing format and the suggestions posted here? Let's brainstorm.
...

15
Speed
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 6:55

  • Speed

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 310

  • Since: 2004/5/18


Regarding email name for login purposes:

1) Many sites use email address for login.
2) Many users are members of many sites and may need to use different logins on each site due to their preferred one being taken already.
3) Email address are unique.
4) You are much more likely to remember your email address than a username if you have several.

What I'm asking is for the login process to be changed to check username and/or email address and match either of them against the password for the account? If the name entered is in the username table and the password matches, grant access. If the email address and the password for that user with that email address match, grant access.

It wouldn't be too difficult to hack in I would imagine. But it would be a really nice core feature. It gives people an option and more it is progressive.

Is it a security risk? I'm not familiar with the core coding so maybe this isn't a simple change?

Implemented or not, I'd like to encourage discussion and try to get more people to talk about possible features or changes. If no one knows what people want, they won't ever be implemented....
...

16
ozp11
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 14:54

  • ozp11

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 74

  • Since: 2003/6/2 1


speed and folks, I´ve just talked to my tech consultant and he told that LDAP can make authentication with many types of fields including e-mail.

So there is nothing that prevent XOOPS to change from USERNAME to EMAIL.

at my site, my users try to insert their entire name in USERNAME and leave NAME in blank.

Here we are talking a lot about hack, customization, changes, modules...

this shows that much of that lacks in XOOPS core.

Example:
There is a hack/module that make XOOPS URL friendly.

So.... why that´s not on the core??

everyone needs this

Too many customization leads to fragmentation, spread in the community, forks, and in the bottom line will be better to develop your own system.


fbs777
Everyone knows that linux is just a kernel in technical terms. Who cares about that?
Only the techincal people. The linux developers and so on

Linux users and computer users does not care about this

They want a linux that works and its easy to operate

I know that ubuntu has a good kernel, and I want to know nothing more.


Why Drupal is web 2.0?

Quote:

Xoops is not to work as a social network...
I think XOOPS is for community, but community around the site content. For example: a site of a band. Is a site with news, downloads, pictures, etc about this band. So, with a forum and blog, plus the comments in news, pictures, downloads, you have a community site.


Of course!!
no one wants XOOPS as a social network for any type of subject
but for the site subject.

Im talking about social network features, not a copy of a social network system

Why drupal is 2.0 and XOOPS is 1.0?

See, this is not black and white.
Go to drupal site take a look at it and how its organized and how can you interact with it

Drupal is just an example that is closer to web 2.0 than Xoops

There is nothing really new on web 2.0
The new stuff is more about BEHAVIOR and FILOSOFY than NEW TECHNOLOGY

blogging
RSS
tagging
group participation on making contend
you control your own data
social networking

and many other features!!!

web 2.0 is not just about AJAX

Can you make a web 2.0 site with XOOPS default?
No

Can you make with XOOPS hacked and customized?
Yes

Its worth the job?
I dont know, because other systems have web 2.0 features integrated in their core

17
davidl2
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 15:00

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


Quote:
Example:
There is a hack/module that make XOOPS URL friendly.

So.... why that´s not on the core??


Because it is a hack, and it is something that will be implemented better in 2.3

18
m0nty
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 18:59

  • m0nty

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 3337

  • Since: 2003/10/24


search engines can read the url's as they are, they have improved lots. so that kind of optimisation isn't totally necessary anymore (IMO), altho a better looking url is nicer for the user to look at.

blocks admin etc, altho this can be done at moment in xoops. XOOPS 2.3 will i believe have a lot better blocks admin function similar to GIJOES blocksadmin module/hack.

there is a hack also for autologin with either username/email. I believe also this functionality will be present in 2.3 also.

there are many improvements gonna be made with XOOPS 2.3 onwards, i would suggest reading the 2.3 roadmap and info regarding new features.

you are suggesting things that have already been suggested many times previous, and some of the suggested features/improvements will be included in future versions..

but these things can't happen overnight, they have to be looked at and explored. but they are being looked at and worked on, that's for definite. Even the admin interface will be overhauled and made better.

how long as drupal been working on their system to make it web 2.0 compliant? probably a long time. in essence they jumped on the 2.0 bandwagon early to implement those standards.. other CMS haven't yet, but that's not to say they aren't being looked at and worked on as we speak.

But these things can't just be done and appear in the next release in a matter of days or weeks. but be assured the issues are and will be addressed.

19
fbs777
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 22:44

  • fbs777

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 48

  • Since: 2005/1/9 4


Quote:

ozp11 wrote:
Quote:
There is a hack/module that make XOOPS URL friendly.


So.... why that´s not on the core??

everyone needs this
Ok, this is a good option, but is not a NEED, i can live with normal urls. Like m0nty said, today search engines can read the url's as they are, so you can wait the implementation of simplified url in 2.3.
And url simplification isn't for everyone, because this feature dont work in every host server...

Quote:
Too many customization leads to fragmentation, spread in the community, forks, and in the bottom line will be better to develop your own system.
I dont need to hack or make a customization. As you can see, your problems are not general problems. Think about: some of solutions for you can be new problems for other webmasters... Now, if what you want can be made in modules, you can use the features you need with module, and the others can still use the default features.

Quote:
fbs777
Everyone knows that linux is just a kernel in technical terms. Who cares about that?
Only the techincal people. The linux developers and so on

Linux users and computer users does not care about this

They want a linux that works and its easy to operate

I know that ubuntu has a good kernel, and I want to know nothing more.

You still dont understand? I told this because you want to include a lot of things in core (kernel).
I told this for you understand: All visible things must be in module/theme. The core must work only like a bridge between php/mysql/apache and the visible area (module/theme/template). Just this.

The difference of Ubuntu (very easy to use) from Gentoo (very hard to use) is the packages (programs, modules, libs, etc). The kernel is basically the same.

I see the XOOPS in the same way: the kernel must be as clean as possible. What must diff a XOOPS website from another is the modules/themes

Thats why you can see this page This is a page with various types of xoops, each one for each type of site. All these use the same kernel (core) of XOOPS 2.2, what make difference is the modules included.
Thats the better thing to do for beginners: release different packs for different proposes. And of course, release the core alone too, like today.

So i think you are wrong to ask to include many things in core, when almost them can be include in modules or blocks...

Quote:
Im talking about social network features, not a copy of a social network system

I agree, XOOPS must have more things related to involve the community and keep them visiting the site. But why you dont ask the features for module developers? Ask to phppp (who made the CBB) to include some functions in the forum.
Ask for someone to create new modules with new features.

Phpp already say about to use the future CBB 4 in XOOPS 2.3 to work like comments too, so every comments in news, downloads etc. will go to topics in forum. So, XOOPS will be able to see comments and topics of forum in the same place.

This will use new functions of XOOPS 2.3, but still are third party module working.

In this case, XOOPS 2.3 will include some functions in core, and modules like CBB will make use of them.

Again comparing with linux: New versions of kernel have a priority: security/bug fix and make the kernel compatible with new types of hardware.
I think the XOOPS core is basically the same: security/bug fix and make compatible with new versions and features of apache/php/mysql/smarty/xoops smarty...

Quote:
Why drupal is 2.0 and XOOPS is 1.0?

See, this is not black and white.
Go to drupal site take a look at it and how its organized and how can you interact with it

Im testing he in localhost. But i dont like his organization, with modules integrated in core...
About interact, just one good point: option to anyone (based on permissions) create pages. But this is a module problem. There is no XOOPS module for this... So, we need someone to create a good module for this.
Something like the XT_conteudo but for all users, not just for admin, based on permissions
So, i make a topic in XT to ask for a new version of xt_conteudo with new features to solve this problem.

Quote:
Drupal is just an example that is closer to web 2.0 than Xoops

Ok, now i tested this drupal. my conclusion: Is more like a "all-in-one", with modules integrated with administration.
I think its wrong. Each update in some modules must update the own drupal version, and dev team core must wast time with modules integrated...

Now take a look in changelog of drupal: a lot of security fixes, so isnt very security...

Xoops is one of the most security CMS, and problaly because dont have many modules with core, just banner, pm, comments, system (and i think in future none these will be integrated in core).
Thats why XOOPS takes a lot of time to have new versions, exactly like the kernel linux...

Quote:
There is nothing really new on web 2.0
The new stuff is more about BEHAVIOR and FILOSOFY than NEW TECHNOLOGY

Again, the filosofy of drupal is to make an integration of core-modules, but i think this dificult the release of new modules and themes.

And about themes, i see the theme files from one theme of drupal and i cant see how to make a great theme for drupal. Comparing with xoops, in drupal i think is very hard to make great themes...

Quote:
blogging
RSS
tagging
group participation on making contend
you control your own data
social networking

Its all about modules... For rss, there is a lot of modules. For blog, there is wordpress and wordpress_mu, for tag, phppp release the XOOPS tag module for integrate tags between modules who suport this tag module.

Quote:
Can you make a web 2.0 site with XOOPS default?
No

If you know a litlle of webdesing and copy and paste javascripts in theme or in file of js from xoops, you can make great sites, like you can see in that site with best sits of month.

Quote:
Can you make with XOOPS hacked and customized?
Yes

Including hacks you can make sites even more greats

Quote:
Its worth the job?
I dont know, because other systems have web 2.0 features integrated in their core

How many sites made with CMS are like you telling about and not like the "old" xoops/phpnuke/newBB/IPB style?
And their are security and easy to made great sites, or is very hard to creat different themes with them?

20
fbs777
Re: Need to improve the "users module" to make it more actual
  • 2006/11/18 23:22

  • fbs777

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 48

  • Since: 2005/1/9 4


Thats what i was talking about:

Resized Image

Community builder - extension for joomla

As you can see, this must be a module feature, and not included in XOOPS core...

Joomla has a module/extension for this, and XOOPS dont have a module like this one for joomla...

That's the problem...

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