well I did have a plan; yet me being daft discussed it on comments and got told off...
So I stopped as if we had an open chat system like on my own site has qOLOp, then we could all see the discussion and add points...
We need to find a way for true democracy to work as XOOPS is based on this...
Yet we fall back on instant feed back before problems occur...
you can add an iframe direct into CBB disclaimer and so allowing instant chat there also...
The Lace on my site is group admin controlable also, yet i got told that isn't a module either, so never released it....
Like i wasn't going to with these even tho they were built for Xoops...
yet after chatting with phppp the other night and him saying just add input on xoops.org to help....
i felt i shouldn't keep the modules i made to my self and thought it would be better all see them...
Again we need a serious look at all our communication and then blame wouldn't happen...
like polls on people ideas..so if a module is to be added later when Xoops.org gets its refit, then we all say...
Else it clearly falls over and no one wants to upset anyone

Quote:

Dear wizanda,

I for sure shouldn't jump in here for now.
Just wanted to make clear: I appreciate your talk with me on msn yesterday and get motivated more for I see new ppl (or not new ppl but new grade) would like to contribute more, just like two years ago when I happened to get know of the XOOPS community a best place for learning and exchanging.

Right now our community sites are being re-built, with which we hope every one would find adequate guide and choose his proper way for adding value to the community, like the topic of our chat yesterday: you wanna help with XOOPS development in any aspect you are good at. I just felt very sorry that I am not immedaitely able to tell you a clear way or procedure for you to take action immediately.
However the possibility is being built up step by step, by everyone of us.

As last word: I just feel lucky to be a developer so I can just focus on programming, not like Bender, davidl2 and other moderators who have to spend much time dealing with stuff beyond technical support :)

Ok, since my blood pressure is actually rising instead of falling here is a response which is not as calm as the one from earlier when i was actually thinking about taking a dive just for having it nice and peacefull here. (once again)

So i am gonna pull some things apart and respond to those accordingly. Its what i think about things and nothing more. I am not god, nor i am the owner of Xoops.org to be able to be a dictator or censor in the long run since there are enough others that could always overrule anything i do here.


First things first:

Again - i specificly give you permission to publish the pm i sent to you in full quote. [size=x-small](if neccessary i guess i can have this pulled from the db)[/size]
Well actually i think you have a reason not for posting it as it would show your initial post(which now lacks some parts?) to be out of line.

Ask yourself this:
- did i inform you in normal wording about why i took down the news?
- did i suggest to promote these on the forums?
- did i put a note to contact me if you want to talk about this?
---> So was it neccessary to publicly try to humiliate me instead of even trying to talk to me first?



Then i am under the impression you think the news was pulled because i think your scripts are not good. That is complete and utter bull. Since i am not a coder i can´t even judge on that matter. I never said anything like that.
(quote me otherwise if you can find anything remotely looking like i did that)
The only thing i wrote you is that we are not posting them in the modules news category since they are basicly scripts with an attached xoops_version.php which is something i still stand to.

Now earlier today i wrote i did not have a good look at Go. But sorry, again there is not too much off a XOOPS module. Again a xoops_version.php was added and in this one the header.php is included. Other than that i don´t see much of Xoops. (no XOOPS functions, no language support, no database use, no admin section). Bottomline this script is not really dependent on XOOPS and could very well be used standalone)



Now lets go for some details:

Wizanda:
I am no way having this! They are my modules how dare you!!!

1. You are having what? 2. Who did ever question the ownership of these modules? (show me where and when)

Removing my News that i wasn't going to post on here due to the attitude i have seen on here lately of dictatorship.

You put my name in the topic so please keep to your ranting about me. For everything else please open separate threads. So please give me an example of me playing the big dictator.
Seems to happen more often from what you wrote. Again where and when?


Then to fulfill the lot and remove my News and messed up comments?? Comments become unaccessible if you revoke a news item from view. There is nothing i can do about that except not revoking the news item which at that time was not an option. If you are using news on any of your sites you can verify that.


Plz explain who are you?
My name is actually Eike. I am from germany and a regular visitor of this site. Additionally i am a moderator and a member of the news team. I helped on wf-projects while it existed and i am helping out on smartfactory. I consider several people in this community as friends and usually like to be around (on most days).



There is the News that David2 I think it was submitted, you choose for your self...The Znake could be questioned on being from another script...

Being from another source is not the point here. Though you should take care of the license you are using. But that has nothing to do with this whole thing right now.


yet Go is hand built Zen Coding and he removes it....

Again being done by you or not is not the issue. Never was for this decision.


By shine: Until then I think modules like Wizanda's should be published. Or,......please create a news-&downloadcategory where modules like this fit in. Grtz., Shine

The thread about what is a module is actually part of finding a way to find out how we can handle this. Thanks for some calm words.


Of course we could go back again to publish everything in modules not even looking at the script but then we can have this same discussion next week based on something like "are you news guys insane? Thats never a XOOPS module why do you post it there?"


Agree in some ways with the znake as that is Zooped from dynamic drive.
Yet Go is hand built and shows ways to fold anything and have images as buttons in html as a source code for people to look at....

Nothing to do with this.


Well if one of the duties of moderators is to make people feel like this is no longer an open community, that I feel i can post or even be part of anymore with out permission from Jenclass and Bender to not get personal.

There is a difference between submitting an news item and posting on the forum isn´t there? If there was a rule that every news submit was to be published what do you think would happen?

Again you made this post about me so if you got any issues with jensclass ... open another one and fight it out there since i don´t know what you are referring to here. (but throwing in some loose worde is always a good thing right?

(between: everyone who feels like i make him feeling not to be allowed posting here or being part of this community step up. Lets have a count)


I honestly didn't want to even mention the modules to begin with...as i am scared of them both as this keep happening and not just to me)

Yes doing that for the good of all the others here. Any concrete examples at hand where i keep happening to people?


Yet felt i should for other XOOPS users, sorry forgive me and i wont release anything any more..
Why would you give up your hobby creating things just because a news item got taken down by one person?
That would be the same as if i would leave XOOPS for good from a community of x thousend people just because you fire this thread at me.


on second thought I don't want to post or develop on here any more!

Uhmm that would be your free choice. Then again for developing you can register projects at dev.xoops.org which give you access to facilities like cvs, trackers and stuff.

Anyone who wants to know what i am releasing it is on my site as I feel I have no rights to be on here and so will not, thxz bender and Jenclass between you for ruining XOOPS for me and others...

I was not my intention to ruin Xoops.org for you. As to others ... please provide some examples where i ruined XOOPS for others.

I may start looking for an new open comunity again as I and others no longer feel this is when people actually contact me on messenger to discuss your selfs and attitude.

Not sure i read this correct: You say people are contacting you on messenger to discuss about persons like me? (or other moderators) Seriously?

By defianceboy:The way I see it all normal user submisions are a privilege not a right

Yes. No one should feel the need to be thankfull for a published news item but the news team has to do some filtering. Its their job. But then again you can always discuss about something being published or not and if you give a good reason why shouldn´t it be even after it was initially rejected?

We contact other users about submits and i did rework some in the past and posted them afterwards. No one so far came after me like this thread here.

By defianceboy:Every comunity either online or in real life can't have its members have the same opinion on different subjects all the time. (like the forums have the locked topic with the rules of the forum...i don't see why the news section shouldn't have a "condition of submiting news" text on the page...i think threads like this will be avoided in the future).

Something like submission guidelines will be provided with the new site. Maybe even here soon. But all this is allways difficult. All the things that are submitted can´t just be pressed in forms and decided on a clear list of rules. There will allways be some judgement by the team members involved in the decission yes or no.


Ok sorry for the outburst, it is just I spent ages on the Go module....and a while on znake...

Noted. And no one said that was wasted time or they were bad or anything along these lines.

Actually how about turning them into modules giving them an admin section, languagefiles and use of more XOOPS functions (this being said without knowing the outcome of the other thread)


Then to wake and find someone replied on comment, I went to see and it said it had gone I was shocked...
Uhm there was a pm explaining why and who to contact about it in your inbox at the same time. Obviously you received it because otherwise you would not have made this about me.



So forgive me if I appeared rude just concerned, as indeed I am personally fearful now of posting up new things and have been for a few months.
Not so much from community where some peoples are unsure; yet more on the grounds of moderators at some points to go no not here or you did that wrong.

Fearfull is a strong word. This really sounds as if you have strong experiences with us moderators here (remember this was about news originally and thats not identical to moderators even when there is some overlapping)
However i don´t get that from the feedback here on the site. If the community feels like we are doing not such a good job then tell us. (sometimes doing something for some time makes you blind to noticing some signs so of course its possible) Don´t attack us personally but show us where we go wrong so we can take action on that. Any specific examples?

Yet how can anyone keep up with where to post and what they allowed to do under this new democracy, if we still are one?
There is no all-explaining guide to "where to post what" and i think there never will be. But i don´t believe you will or have been punished for submitting or posting something anywhere. You might be asked to post at a different place ... but i think thats as far as it goes.

Now I wrote to phppp asking to help ect, yet I just feel I am treated as a joke and don't know why?

I wasn´t in that conversation but phppp is hardly someone i would even consider thinking he might ridicule anyone. Sorry but i am not buying this one.


Then when I do help; I get told to shut up or post removed, it hurts that is all, if you had spent the time to ask me maybe I would have explained...

Moderators are asking you to shutup?
`

The worse is I am sitting with a dell-optiplex server meant for maybe a chat communication system for XOOPS or something like this was thinking…then maybe an iframe every Xooper member could have, yet then I was told again to shut up...
So server just sits here and I just shut up?

Well about the communication thing afair that was mostly to not draw away questions and solutions from x.org forums. Over the years i have seen irc channels come and go for example. They were tolerated (posting/talking about them here i mean) but not actively promoted by Xoops.org itself for example. Which is something i do find reasonable. Not?

About that iframe thing. As far as i remember security concerns have been raised and not only on this site you have been asked to remove iframes from postings. So if the question is utilizing your server against the security of sites where you run iframes on i think the answer is obvious. (though i am not an expert and can not judge on the severity of the iframes issue)


limecity: ok. I got a question for whoever it may concern.
why was the module news approved in the first place if it wasn't mean to show up on the front page?

A team? different opinions? not being looked at good enough? There are many possible reasons. I see no real good method to have a team decision on every news submit or any different handling that would be able to ensure that this would never happen again.
After all the submitter was notified and offered to speak about if required.

I thought the process was like:
submit - review - hold/reject/approved

Yup ... basicly it is. Then again see before.


Biteronboard:In regards to the news situation... I am not sure that this was a very fair decision. If topics like "New downloads at..." and "I changed the background color of the default theme" can make the news, why cant this.

Well i have not been too long on that team but can´t we implement changes in how things are done?
Especially for this matter if you look into the repository:
Here you question an item in the repository of being a module yourself. The same thing can be found on sarah releases by others. Now we are picking this up and adopt to what we notice people think and its unfair? This is not the first thing rejected because of this and never have we refused to discuss or reconsider. So now ... i would not call it unfair. If a change in any form is unfair ... we will be stuck in the past.



Now reaching the end of this response realizing a lot of time has passed i somehow get the feeling this ranting at me namely is a collection of experiences venting into one blow of steam. (bad timing and i just pulled the trigger i guess)


So some notes about the titles in question:

- can´t find it anymore but you were talking about the gpl somewhere. Actually Go comes with this license:
$modversion['license'] = "Mine, Share. oh And thiers of course";
Now that doesn´t fit. Either its using XOOPS functions and being a module in which case it must be released under the gpl again or its not. If its gpl you should change that and also add a license file.
Not sure about the license on that snake script.
- both add ons could use a short readme


Finally again: Don´t jump from "not being a module" to a judgement as to quality. That was never said nor meant.




These are my personal remarks. I am not speaking for the whole set of moderators, nor for the news team nor anyone or anything else. [size=x-small](and don´t worry just after writing all this my blood pressure has now dropped to normal levels again)[/size]

(and don´t worry just after writing all this my blood pressure has now dropped to normal levels again)

lol! well atleast this much was accomplished in this thread.

in response, I believe you are correct in having expectation levels in News releases. After all this is what our visitors see first. Although, if this is going to be truth for module releases then it should be truth for the other three areas.

I personally get aggraveted when Great up and coming XOOPS sites are bumped by "get downloads" or a orih=ginal theme is bumped by a copy of the default with some css changes. I just feel that this section of XOOPS.org is being #OOPS#d. Its nice to see an attempt at change being made. It just felt abrupt.

I dont intend on telling you how to go about your jobs. I just want to make a small suggestion. In my communities when I plan to make changes I make an announcement about it with an initiation date. This way no one can say "well you just made up that rule to spite me".

Anywho thats my three cents. I will butt out now.

(I think all of the Mods are exceptional at what they do, and change is part of growth.)

Wow thxz Very well written up here is the message you asked me for sorry didn't realize, it was an order sir!
Quote:

This is why the outburst to begin with...
If they are not real modules that work So what are they then?
Please Specify as you seem very good at being able to do that with other peoples work?
Oh and as for licensing??
I don't know what I am meant to put, I am a cowboy web designer who has taught him self within XOOPS and is still learning to add language files ect
Yet will help I speak Spanish and bits of many to start with, just unsure still on how to do this and was planning on reading the doc’s.
When I understand where and how they function as a page or site some where why the point within on jen started being rude so I didn't, after I honestly offered to assist translating everything and writing them, yet they are doing it, oh..
Yet since it is difficult to ask on here and get things in the right place????
Please explain how Xoops, now works as you are in charge clearly as that sounds?
Given that even though I am the one who was offended and told "sit boy" in the forum?
You imagine if you spent a day working on something to be "accepted" by David, who also said he made modules like that, yet didn't submit them; yet in this case accepted these.
Which would mean he saw fit at first they were News; now they are not News, as you said?
Pardon... I don't see why David sits there and apologizes when he did nothing wrong in fact it is open source; not a talent contest and you defend your rights to insulting me?
I am sorry for being lax, yet honestly unsure on what to fill in with certain bits...if people worked together, then maybe we could, yet if one takes it on their shoulders to say this idea works, with out all of us?
That isn't community I am afraid to say any more and definitely can't be called open source.
So look at your self and wonder why I would even say any of that and why then you defend your ego.
When I was sincerely saying within talking to phppp he suggested to help on here more not contrary; and why people take me daft I don't know.
Then so let me get this straight also, now the news is our repository?
So ermm I am confused?

Sorry my Go Module is now 100 demark as is all my time,
I work at professionally on XOOPS all day, as a Job for free; if you don’t stop this promote idea, which I do for the good of XOOPS and others…
The sickness you have is not mine and why I joined XOOPS not others; is not to have some business 10 years down the line like mambos is within its modules.
My site has always been a charity to help with open development of oneness which XOOPS did use to be?
You really are making this confusing having a battle with me, as if you have something to win?
This is my home as it is yours, so let’s stop being daft give me back my dignitary.
Which you blatantly took with no real reason, other then to act authoritatively over people in the News?...
Fair enough if it was the repository and it was like that…
Even I may question as I did with the free movies and modules like this as we all do when it is an iframe.
Well use to until became where me and others are unsure, if or where you can post on comments about a subject concerning that without permission.
Sorry like I keep saying, maybe I got the wrong site it’s the logo it looks the same as that other one

The point is there is no one you have to ask for permission to do anything. Just do it ...

As this seems to be the main issue:

Quote:

They are scripts that could work stand alone since they make no real use of the stuff XOOPS provides as functionality. You add a xoops_version to get them into XOOPS admin but basicly you could just setup a website and include these scripts. You don´t really need Xoops.

The term module being used with everything that can be run along with XOOPS is a bit missplaced (imho). Instead if its a XOOPS module it would suggest its something build around what XOOPS offers and therefore most likely could not be used without Xoops.

So we might have to find a term for those scripts that are just prepared for adding by simply adding a Xoops_version.php to it. I see some sense in discussing what shine suggested.

Using the term script here instead of module does have nothing to do with the content in regards to quality or something. The term module just refers to something thats made with Xoops, for XOOPS and makes use of the features XOOPS offers.


If you still feel insulted after i publicly explained why the news was taken down and that it had nothing to do with quality but only the categorization as module or not i am not sure what i am supposed to do about that.

The problem is as for the category "modules" i could go right now and collect lots of open source scripts, add a xoops_version.php to those and say they are modules now.
Same way (if i could code) i could write a script that works on its own and again put a xoops_version into it and include the header and name it a module.



Quote:

Sorry but I really have a problem following you in this part. (then again i am not a native english speaker myself)

Now i have a sickness and you talk about commercialising? Where does that come from? What does the difference between a script and a module to do with commerce?

Then you say i took your dignitary? How? By taking down that news? Have it back.

Somehow it seems my explanations don´t get through to you and yours not really to me. I am a bit unsure how to fix this
Maybe we have a language issue here. Would like to talk in german but i guess that won´t do any good.

Quote:

Bender's phrase resume's the why of things.
Yet the how of things could use a little planning.

Maybe creating a couple of topics more in the news would help in placing the news in the correct place? and everyone will be happy (ex, plugins, for those "modules" that don't follow XOOPS standards)

There's no one to blame and starting accusations seems very childish to me instead of settling things in a more professional manner. It doesn't seem to me that anybody has acted with bad intentions of harming anyone here.

This seems to me a structural problem not some kind of medieval censorship dilema and some people seem to be taking it too personal when others are just making an effort in doing things correctly.

It would be best if something POSITIVE could result of all this...

I guess Wizanda submitted his scripts as modules because there isn't really any other description for them. If you install them on a XOOPS site, where do you find them? In the Modules section of the admin area. I would suggest that anyone new to XOOPS who was looking for something that installed like a module and was accessible on the main menu like a module would be looking for a module, whether it had an admin section or not. A quick scan through the Module Repository will reveal quite a few scripts that fit the criteria of not having an admin area, not using XOOPS functions etc, including 3 that I have submitted.(Although with some of them, there's a lot more work in them than just sticking a xoops_version.php file in them) Now, i'm happy to have them called whatever you want, but I think you have to make it clear to everyone from the start that this is the case.

This is not a dig at anyone, especially not Bender, David or any of the mods or staff. I wouldn't do your job for quids, and you all do a great job of a usually thankless task. I'm just trying to see it from Wizanda's point of view. Yes, maybe his post was a little extreme, and maybe he should have discussed it privately with Bender first. As it is apparent that English is not his first language, perhaps some of what he wrote did not come out the way he intended.

Perhaps I could add my voice to those above who suggested another category of "module" or plugin?

*EDIT* Just to clarify above: Even though I can understand Wizanda's position and frustration, I do not agree with the position he has taken regarding the moderators, particularly those not involved with the original "removal". Wizanda, if you're trying to effect change, then dragging people through the dirt is not the way to do it.

For the benefit of the whole community this post is the only one in which I will take this up publicly

Quote:

Well I am to say the least - flabbergasted! I'd like anyone including yourself Wizanda who has been made to feel you need my 'permission' to do something to let me know. Give me some evidence, talk about it with me preferably in private and with maturity - not publicly like this. Since you have pointed out concerns with me publicly I you leave me no choice but to defend myself publicly.

You have never informed me you were unhappy about a decision I made which directly affected you. As a result I am totally mystified by the accusation that I make you feel the way you say.

Quote:

Just so the rest of the XOOPS community know this - I have nothing to with the new team and it's decision - so once again how my name comes into this is beyond me. For some reason you want to pair us up and single us out. I, regardless of what responses you get from others, need some eveidence to see how I personally have 'ruined' your XOOPS experience.

Quote:

If I am one of these moderators please tell me what I said that made you so 'fearful'. I simply make judgements based on our categories and ettiquette in the forum. I don't make up the rules, I follow them and see that they are met. That's my job. I make no apology for doing my job in this community and since no-one in this community has approached me to to say they feel 'fearful', or that I have 'ruined' their XOOPS experience because of the way I deal with them or something I wrote I believe I do my job here well.

So in a nutshell Wizanda - if you have issues with me please be one who will direct it to me personally so I can deal with it instead of taking the down and dirty approach of public criticism without evidence. I am disappointed to see that your issues with me have been dealt with in this underhanded way underneath an issue that has nothing to do with me. I am not part of the news team and had nothing to do with this decision.

As stated above this is the one and only time I am prepared to deal with this complaint about me publicly.

Ok Jen and Bender the point yesterday, I flipped in the morning and saying you ruin XOOPS is an out right over exaggeration, to say the least you help make XOOPS the pair of you! So I am sorry for that like I keep repeating!

So forget I put it like that and didn’t mean to come across so harshly like that, yet on the grounds of constantly telling me off for posting stands on points….
Now yesterday for me was a day from hell, the day before I was seeking advise from a rector and as I am a young man and came to his backdoor as I was told to do he assaulted me; simply for asking for help in my life….???
Now I pressed charges yesterday, do you know what happened he denied it and the police can’t do a #OOPS# thing!!!
Which means this reverend can go around punching in the face young men he doesn’t like the look of, for asking for advice (I look identical to Jesus ).
Then on the other hand we have a XOOPS site me asking to help and for advice and being stopped in my tracks the same each time…
Now given that the authority here are moderators and the authority with the system that just allowed a common assault to be dropped, is along the same lines of authority pushing the little ones.
Hopefully you see why yesterday I was not exactly in the mood to have my one of my only joy’s in life denied me…i.e. I was quite looking forward to playing Go with other XOOPS members and put XOOPS on the map for Go and Shi-painter. You see I have studied most Chinese and Japanese philosophies since little.
Yet not from School or standard XOOPS in our case yet asking the teacher at school where the heck the Japanese philosophies were and why they were force feeding us Christianity.
The teacher gave me a blank look and in fact enforced his authority over an 11/12 year old; we did not need that here and Christianity is what I would learn…
So what did I do get my head out of the box and missed school and instead studied in the county library where I could research medical books and required philosophies as needed.
So then I get classed as a rebel for standing up for freedom of speech. In trying to say that we need these books and new ideas as half the world does them as they are very logical.
Now I just feel it is the same thing happening over and over again on here, I know you don’t mean to, yet when you stop free thought and ideas flowing that are no longer open source, yet controlled source. I.e. we are XOOPS (you only need Christianity and shall not read the others) or are we and open source friendly community that allows others freedom to express their self’s, within respect for others.
Now yes I could have asked in Pm, like I asked the reverend at his back door step, who again is this same enforcement agency as the police are the one who dropped the charges, not me and I am left sitting here with no options left other then to take law into my own hands to allow others to also here of the injustice.
I do agree I am mixing both up, yet both hit me in my life at same time and both is suppression, to my soul so yes I will stand publicly as it is far safer.
Same with the reverend not that it will make any difference, yet I could go on the Sunday service and just get him to deny he punched me in the face in front of his congregation and so show the true colours.

Now the point in all of this is we are not chiefs and Indians we are all Indians in a big boat that we all row together, if we have one I am a the boss, you are a rower as you did to me Jen then this is where problems stem.
You asked me not to post and at the bottom of your comment you added Jenclass = Moderator?
It is just the same situation, of I am your teacher you do as I say, what though when clearly at 13; I could have taught many on ancient Taoism and many other philosophies, yet the teacher is older or is he?
Now yeh you both got brought into it and maybe I went about it the wrong way yet I do still stand that, you do that quite often to people of I am the authority here.
The only reason being is I was away caring for my grandad that there is a diffrence else I would be sitting in your shoes.
Now this shouldn’t be that we have a diffrence specified between us, you do not need to enforce you are a moderator in the first place most people would know this and show resepect, if resepect is given.
It sort of feels often that you are trying both to prove something to the XOOPS community that you can do the job, yet it is the other way arround for some of us who have been here longer then your selfs. That we try and show that this is an open community, that other then a few problems before moderators, most of the true xoopers were resepectful and as such would expect the same treatment as they always got.

Peace, Love and light B with U