41
irmtfan
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/21 15:02

  • irmtfan

  • Module Developer

  • Posts: 3419

  • Since: 2003/12/7


i think Project Manager role is not important at all in the current situation.and any conversation about the past is a waste of time.
again please consider the current situation.

now all final decisions should come from Council team that have 3 members ( Yes this is a transient or what else you name team but anyway they chosen for this team to do their job and we should start from somewhere):
- phppp
- jmorris
- tom
so they should work as a team and vote for everything.
again you see Project Manager is not above Council team and is not important at all.
what is not clear is:
- what is their important decisions?
- who make this decisions? again it should come from a true voting system not by a single person.
- 2 out of 3 votes for everything is enough for accept it. what is these votes?
Quote:

2/ Project Council is not functioning correctly because phppp is making decisions on his own without reference to the other council members.

totally agreed.is this team have a leader? is phppp decision is above the other 2 members? it is what exactly is not clear at all and should be clear.

Quote:

Tom wrote:
According to DJ the council is not established as yet, only proposed, we're awaiting his confirmation on establishment before we can proceed.

totally disagreed.
is phppp above you and Jmorris in this team? i dont see such a sentence in the first post by phppp.

the final words: these 3 gentlemen are in the team and they are as equal as each other so they should do all things in a voting system.

just my opinion
----------------
irmtfan

42
JMorris
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/21 15:19

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Quote:
i think Project Manager role is not important at all in the current situation.and any cinversation about the past is a waste of time.


To an extent, I agree with you regarding the Project Manager role given the current situation. I do not think that I should have greater say than anyone else. Only equal say.

The purpose behind explaining the original plans was to clarify why I am opposed to some of the actions currently taking place. As one of the members who helped develop the original restructuring plans, I believe in those plans and now offer them up to the council as a proposal for the direction we should move. Therefore, they are no longer in the past, but are now a proposal for the future.

Quote:
so they should work as a team and vote for everything.
again you see Project Manager is not above Council team and is not important at all.


I agree 100%! Every member of the Council should have equal say.

Quote:
totally agreed.is this team have a leader? is phppp decision is above the other 2 members? it is what exactly is not clear at all and should be clear.


The impression Tom and I had was that we would have equal say in this council. We were then told that the council was not in effect; therefore, we had no vote.

Quote:
is phppp above you and Jmorris in this team? i dont see such a sentence in the first post by phppp.


We did not see this in DJ's post either, hence the confusion.

Now, whether the proposal to carry out the original plans or whether new plans are drafted, I think it is imperative that we clearly establish who will be the people who make the final call are and we clearly define the procedures for the decision making.

We cannot operate under the direction of 1 person at this point. There must be a proper representation from all areas of XOOPS if we are going to restructure XOOPS so that it meets the needs of the majority.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

43
sailjapan
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

JMorris said:
Quote:
It appears that we find ourselves in a situation where misunderstandings have created a tangled mess.



Well. Thank you very much, JMorris, for making that statement. Better late than never.

It would seem that we've all been getting our knickers in a twist over a bunch of misunderstandings brought about by a distinct lack of clarity in communications.

The plan as stated in JMorris's post (above) does seem to clearly define each area of XOOPS the whole, and hopefully will lead to a leaner, less confusing state of affairs.

I, personally speaking, feel that I can jack in the flag waving, and go back to my end user status fairly reassured that some rock solid, super functional product is on it's way.

A few final words:

-Understand that none of what I wrote was aimed at any one person in particular, but at the system as I saw it. Although it now seems that that was from an uninformed position.

-I hope that the value and necessity of timely and clear communication by the uppermost echelons of XOOPS to the rest of us, has made itself crystal clear.

-I also hope that the attitude of 'them and us' is recognized as a primary cause of many of XOOPS's recent woes, and that it can be expunged from XOOPS once and for all.

Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur. (Seneca)

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

44
JMorris
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/21 16:43

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Quote:
-Understand that none of what I wrote was aimed at any one person in particular, but at the system as I saw it. Although it now seems that that was from an uninformed position.


Understood and appreciated.

Quote:
-I hope that the value and necessity of timely and clear communication by the uppermost echelons of XOOPS to the rest of us, has made itself crystal clear.


Yes it has, IMHO, and clear communication is something I've been preaching for almost 2 years. I want this as much as anyone else.

Quote:
-I also hope that the attitude of 'them and us' is recognized as a primary cause of many of XOOPS's recent woes, and that it can be expunged from XOOPS once and for all.


I agree 100%. The proposal I made, based on the original restructuring plans is not about segregation. It is about empowerment. It is about empowering the community to do more and be more actively involved. It's about empowering the developers by removing the burdens of community management.

Again, I agree that the 'them and us' mentality must go. To do this, there needs to be a proper infrastructure in place where everyone can contribute. We will never be able to get rid of the 'them and us' mentality if there is a constant power struggle over what can and cannot be done at the community support level. That is exactly why it is imperative that community support should be entirely managed by the community and not the project.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

45
MadFish
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/21 16:55

  • MadFish

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1056

  • Since: 2003/9/27


James

Thanks for the clarification, that helped a lot. Got to do some thinking and digesting now :) Might be good to write it up and pin it somewhere?

46
JMorris
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/21 17:41

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


I can only explain my understanding of what *was* going to happen and what I see happening now. The person we need to hear from is DJ as he is the one who has taken the lead in the eyes of the community.

It is my hope that we can clear up this confusion and get back on track ASAP.

DJ,

Could you please elaborate on your understanding?
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

47
chippyash
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/22 6:39

  • chippyash

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 501

  • Since: 2004/1/29


Skalpa made the appointments 'as he left'. Don't make the mistake of thinking that we live in a democracy ... yet.

48
chippyash
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/22 7:02

  • chippyash

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 501

  • Since: 2004/1/29


Quote:

JMorris wrote:
I can only explain my understanding of what *was* going to happen and what I see happening now. The person we need to hear from is DJ as he is the one who has taken the lead in the eyes of the community.

It is my hope that we can clear up this confusion and get back on track ASAP.

DJ,

Could you please elaborate on your understanding?


Tim (tom) and James

If you let D.J. take the lead, he will do just that. As you both have equal status then you must assert your right to have an equal role in the direction of how things are going. I can't say I fully understand the reasoning for the proposed format, but it seems to me that at least it is well thought out and defined. I suggest that you two gentlemen do your best to ensure it happens. As you guys have the 'keys' to the system, then it fairly falls in your lap to do it. Otherwise you should hand them over to someone else who is prepared to do it. I'm afraid that deferring to D.J. just 'cus he shouts louder is not an adequate response. It's a tough call.

49
JMorris
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation
  • 2007/6/23 3:06

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


akitson,

I understand what you are saying. However, I'm not deferring control to DJ, only deferring comment until DJ has had reasonable opportunity to reply. There is a big difference between assertion and aggression. I think we all can agree that there has been too much aggression around here as of late.

I was made aware that during the time of the previous posts, DJ was in transit from China to his home. He now is home and is catching up on matters, as we've seen by his posts.

Every effort is going to be made to ensure that effective communication takes place by the members of the council and we all get on the same page so XOOPS can move forward.

IMHO, ensuring that everyone clearly understands the direction we are moving is imperative. Otherwise, we will only recreate the mess we had before.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

50
sailjapan
Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
There is a big difference between assertion and aggression. I think we all can agree that there has been too much aggression around here as of late.


Hear Hear!

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

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