I've use the search module and did not find exactly what I was looking for.

I've read Is XOOPS used for business applications? but it was not quite what I was looking.

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Can someone talk a bit about selling an installation, implementation, customization of a XOOPS site? What can you do and what can't you do? Is there people that concentrate on selling these services? What about pricing? Does it happen more with php-nuke or post-nuke or e-xoops?

I know, a lot of questions

Let's hear what people on this coummunity have to say !

I view XOOPS as a tool which can provide some competitive advantage when selling web site solutions.

Clients I deal with wouldn't know the difference between xoops/php-nuke or evan .NET for that matter. But what they can understand is turn around time for development and having the ability to make changes and evolve their site in the future.

Xoops gives you this ability. You can tell clients that when you build sites you use a powerful and accepted open source framework. This decreases your time of development (as lots of core needs, templating, user management) is provided to you by the frame work. Any savings you make in time can translate directly into savings they can potentially get selecting you as their service provider.

You can also let potential clients know that XOOPS has a very active global community. What this means is that there are always going to be new features, functionality and modules which they can get for free. You can then upsell them a service fee to manage, install and configure new modules and module updates as they become available.

If your client says "I don't want a template site, I have really specific needs and general modules just don't do the job" Well, XOOPS helps you here as well. Most cases client requirements can be adapted from an existing module or you have the opportunity to develop a module specifically for this client.

I personally cannot think of a web site or web based application that XOOPS isn't well suited for. I think to really be able to see that potential you need to already have some experience with building php/mysql web sites. But even if your new to the web in general, XOOPS gives you a lot of 'out of the box' capabilities which would take you years to learn how to build properly on your own.

imho, phpNuke, e-xoops and the others don't even compare to XOOPS or come close to offering near limitless flexibility. The main reason for this.. Smarty templates and a real OO design.

thats just my 2 cents.

The idea is that you're selling a service, not a product. The service is the customisation of the CMS, and you can charge as many hours as you see fit for any fee you find appliccable for that. Since I'm not a professional designer, I can't help you with that.

But for the XOOPS system itself, you can't charge. You got it free, and they can get it free, so there's no point in charging the clients for XOOPS. Also, they're bound by the same licence to using XOOPS as you are, so you can't restrict them redistributing it if they choose to (for images this does not apply, but it does for code, even modules you write for them. They're part of the complete program as they can't function without the XOOPS core).

I hope this gives you a better idea of what you can do with XOOPS

Herko

fatman and Herko : thanks for you opinions.

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obviously....

fatman : if I understand it correctly, you are selling XOOPS implementation. Do you know if a lot of people/company do so?

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We've been doing so as one option of what we do. We started out doing print, actually, and moved into web design (with an emphasis on the small business/non-profit market: clients who need a really simple, static site and don't have $500 to shell out for a consultation), and then with XOOPS started expanding a bit to support more complicated clients. Primarily, we've found that XOOPS works well when dealing with clients who need frequent updates to their sites, don't have a lot of money to pay someone to do it for them, and who have little or no technical expertise. A lot of our clients are political candidates or local political parties, for instance, but we've also designed sites for small retailers, restaurants, and--ironically enough--a vocational school.

We always make it very clear to the client that what we are selling is installation, customization, set-up, and technical support, and that we are not selling them the XOOPS package itself. There's a useful legal upside to this: in making it clear that we are selling the service and not the product, we make no implied warranty about XOOPS itself. So, if someone finds a security hole in XOOPS, hacks into the site, and does something to damage the client (creating some sort of defamation, for instance), we have no liability for breach of warranty.

Essentially, the relationship between XOOPS and the client is that same as the relationship between NetObjects Fusion/Dreamweaver/Flash and the user: it's just a tool that's been used to create the site.

Does that help any?

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Yeah basically. I sell my skills and service as a web developer, and I offer to clients that i build their site(s) using XOOPS as the core to save me time and save them money. I do the same thing with OSCommerce for people who just need pure commerce and requie no community type elements. I charge a fee based on time it takes to install and configure their site, and then I sell them a monthly hosting/technical package on top of that. HTH.

Hi marcan, an interesting question I think ...

My undertanding is that providing you do not try to sell the CMS as software including any modules or scripts you can charge for any service that involves installation, custom design work, managing a site and customer tuition. all this seems reasonable as these actions are not directly profiting from the software itself. So how much would you charge??

Of course this very variable depending on how much customisation skill and time you are inputting. I note that planet XOOPS as advertised in this sites top banner chages $25 for installation of XOOPS on their server as part of hosting package. As for interpreting a customers ideas and implementing web designs many commercial web design companies charge a fixed fee for the first pagem that can be in the region of $200 to include a theme and tempaltes. Therafter a much lower rate for adding content pages. Is this reasonable for a XOOPS site, bearing in mind you're not hard coding pages?? I don't know perhaps others may comment .

Richard

I have recently started my own company with emphasis on PHP websites.

I have started off of XOOPS and made my own very very stripped down version to accomodate purely the small business, which only needs some static HTML pages with information - easily modified and updated of course. I have charged my first customer, for whom I have developed it, for almost 50 hours, because this is the time it took for me to work on it + documentation.

Future customers can expect a much much lower number of hours to get a working website, with most of the work being in the theme department and not on the contents/administration. I'll estimate the number of hours, I need to make it and when I have some more experience in this area, I'll probably make a fixed offer.

When it comes to XOOPS, it all depends on the amount of work. Will the customer need only an installation of XOOPS? Can his/her demands be met with available modules? Should I develop new ones? Is it just a matter of making a theme?

I have found competitors charging €700 for just a very simple, static HTML website, which I find a very high price. I expect my own ... Let's call it XOOPS Lite ... installation + theming + instruction to be around €500.

I do themes for €300, depending on difficulty and what I have to work with (existing site being converted to theme or start from scratch) - higher, if there is more than just theming, e.g. modification of block templates etc. Lower, if I hit a "wall" somewhere and find that I cannot do everything as the customer wants it to be.

Mithrandir:
I don't believe 700 Euro is a lot to charge for a simple website. Not that i'm even in the business of web design, mind you. But I am responsible for updating and maintaining the website for the company I work for. Their site was designed by a large Japan-based company which has since gone under (i think) and which charged around $30000 Australian ( around 18000 Euro)along with a yearly "maintenance" charge, which has thankfully passed. This site is not bad, it has some well-implemented features that I would not have been able to code myself, but $30000? I think the moral of THAT story is, that some people are willing to pay whatever is required to get what they want.
(Yes, I think $30000 is very excessive, and i'll be designing a different site as part of my normal duties, so I won't get a cent for it) I wish I was able to set up my own company to sell XOOPS "packages" but unfortunately, I need a steady wage too much to risk it.

Setting up a company exclusively for selling XOOPS related services is unfortunately not a way to make a living in Denmark

Luckily, I'm a full time student and part time XOOPS'er, so it is not meant as a way of living as much as it is a part time supplementary towards the monthly income.