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11
beduino
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 20:29

  • beduino

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 35

  • Since: 2005/2/26


OK,
1. if the XOOPS TEAM agree with 'portuguese' only, I agree - but I talk only in my name. I don't represent 'Brazilian Community'.
2. Angra/Mikhail. You already know my answer - You made the original translation of XOOPS. Credits to you. The new package of portuguese already contain this info. We only review , and adapt the original translation to new versions of XOOPS.

-- editing to clarify --
credits to Mikhail Miguel
-------------------------

All the best to all
Barroca
12
wcrwcr
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 20:40

  • wcrwcr

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1114

  • Since: 2003/12/12


Hi all

I like the idea of integration but we still have some important diferences in both "languages" (gramatical ones i mean).

as some of you may know there is a project to inegrate all portuguese languages spoken around the world and they (maybe) will use the same grammar.

But for now we have some big diferences :

mouse:
portugal=rato
brazil=mouse

screen/monitor
portugal=ecran
brazil=tela/monitor

contact
portugal-contacto
brazil=contato

and so on

that´s my two cents
13
Mamba
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 20:48

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


That's we we are leaving to the experts to decide how they want to have it
Support XOOPS => DONATE
Use 2.5.11 | Docs | Modules | Bugs
14
Mikhail
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 21:05

  • Mikhail

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 412

  • Since: 2003/1/19


Quote:

Mamba wrote:
That's we we are leaving to the experts to decide how they want to have it




Ok: Portuguese is a language. "Brazilian Portuguese" and "Portuguese from Portugal" are DIALECTS, not languages. The same to "US English" and "European English".

Good example: In Blogger, anyone can see the options "Portuguese" (neutral), "Brazilian Portuguese", and "Portuguese from Portugal" Because Blogger can support many dialects.

Will be great in the "perfect world" a XOOPS Language folder for each country or city, but is impossible. Too much work for too many modules.

Scripts like WordPress can support dialects because they are just small scripts (used as XOOPS module, for example) supported by a by BIG community. XOOPS Community is BIG, but not to translate all modules to all dialects.

What I mean is: XOOPS is not a "Stand Alone Web Application", is modular. Is "ok" to translate the XOOPS Core to dialects but is impossible and UNNECESSARY to translate ALL XOOPS modules to dialects. This is the point.

Is really necessary to translate internal modules like the System or AltSys to EN-UK? The same question is valid to Portuguese BR and Portuguese PT.

Ah, and actually, the XOOPS Portugal support is inactive.

My 20 Euros.
15
wcrwcr
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 21:22

  • wcrwcr

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1114

  • Since: 2003/12/12


Hi Angra

and so what could be our preferred grammar or dialetics?

Quote:

My 20 Euros.


are you brazilian, portuguese...from angola, cabo verde, timor leste?


@Barroca
Nicw to see you around
16
Mamba
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 21:50

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


We really don't have to get into the whole discussion about languages.

The reality is that it's up to individuals who want to translate XOOPS into their language.

As XOOPS, we don't want to tell people that they should or should not have a local regional translation.

So if there is a group of Brazilian XOOPS users/developers who believe that it is justified to have a Brazilian version, then more power to them. We have the infrastructure in place on SourceForge to support them.

In the end, it will be up to them to spend the time on translation and maintaining the translation.

It seems like there is no one right or wrong answer. For example:

Firefox has a Brazilian version.
Wikipedia members voted down a Brazilian version of Wikipedia

And we at XOOPS won't be the first ones to solve it once and for all
Support XOOPS => DONATE
Use 2.5.11 | Docs | Modules | Bugs
17
Mikhail
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/23 22:00

  • Mikhail

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 412

  • Since: 2003/1/19


Quote:

Mamba wrote:
We really don't have to get into the whole discussion about languages.

The reality is that it's up to individuals who want to translate XOOPS into their language.

As XOOPS, we don't want to tell people that they should or should not have a local regional translation.

So if there is a group of Brazilian XOOPS users/developers who believe that it is justified to have a Brazilian version, then more power to them. We have the infrastructure in place on SourceForge to support them.

In the end, it will be up to them to spend the time on translation and maintaining the translation.

It seems like there is no one right or wrong answer. For example:

Firefox has a Brazilian version.
Wikipedia members voted down a Brazilian version of Wikipedia

And we at XOOPS won't be the first ones to solve it once and for all


Yes, a very good example is the Wikipedia (the same for both). The conflicts can be solved with Patches. I believe that using the same folder will help the Portuguese and Africans communities (is necessary).

Again: is very hard and unnecessary to translate all modules to all dialects.
18
Catzwolf
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/24 0:03

  • Catzwolf

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1392

  • Since: 2007/9/30


As some one who is actually Scottish (Considered British to many of you), I do not consider US English and UK English the same thing. That is why we have two different dictionaries and no, they are not the same to me.

So if I can say that US and UK English are not the same and I do get annoyed that I am forced into using the US spellings on websites and with Xoops. I can say, I understand why others feel the same with their languages.

I am not sure about others, but the case of US and UK English, this could be easily sorted with changing the structure and the way XOOPS deals with languages. For example, we could use en-US and en-GB. That way, we Brits don't have to put up with the silly US spelling of color etc.

So how could this be fixed in your own language and the way XOOPS deals with your language? Is there a browser compliant way of dealing with it?

Nice to see you here again Mikhail :)

Catz
19
ghia
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/24 6:04

  • ghia

  • Community Support Member

  • Posts: 4953

  • Since: 2008/7/3 1


I think we can stick with the full name (in english) for language files, eg (english, french, dutch). For the variants, we can add the two letter iso code as eg englishUK.
If a variant is needed it can be created as such on SourceForge.
Which foldernames should be used for this variant?
- The same as the original (eg english): In that case the files can easy be overwritten.
- As the variant (eg englishUK): this allows to operate the site in multilanguage mode.
For you to think about it and to choose. I think second option may be preffered.

Quote:
My 20 Euros.
That's a lot, other people do it usually with 2 cents = 0,015192 Euro
20
trabis
Re: utf-8 and portuguese

  • 2009/4/24 12:59

  • trabis

  • Core Developer

  • Posts: 2269

  • Since: 2006/9/1 1


First I like to say "Hello!" to Mikhail. He was my first xoopser contact in msn messenger and I'm sorry that we have talk only 2 or 3 times, because you have discussed some many interesting things, among some, the issue that this thread is covering.

In portugues pt
'register'=>registar

In portuguese br
'register'=>registrar or cadastrar

In PT we use "cadastrar"(cadastrados) to define people who have been convicted for some crime.

Some of this differences can become very annoying. A solution is to adopt neutral translations(mikhail ideia) having brazilian and portuguese working togheter in some kind of translation standards that would fit both interests.

I can't complain about pt_utf8 translations however, has said above, there is no real community for PT support so, the job made by brazilian team is more than welcome. When I have some issue it is easy for me to make change. There are not so many changes to be done, really.

Also, as I believe Mamba said, this is something for the communities to decide. They can make their own locale translations and submit them to SVN.

We just have to decide the name to give for this folders.
My opinion is to have portuguese(neutral)
portuguese_pt and portuguese_br.

In case some translation does not exist, the user can allways rename the folder(as I allways did!)
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