xoops forums

vaughan

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 7:31
vaughan
vaughan (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 684
Since: 2005/11/26
#51

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

herko was made a developer yes, but he sent notice that he didn't want to join the project as a dev or anything, he is only giving advice, herko is leaving XOOPS and moving on, and he is not moving on with impress, so no he will not be involved with the project after he quits, that is why he was removed from the dev group, by his choosing.

nice to see you keeping tabs BS. but without the relevant info and discussions, you have completely jumped to the wrong conclusion again.

but like i said, herko has never had admin to the Project, yes he was a dev listed there, but that is all, he was never admin, and he was never removed and added again, he was removed once and still is removed. so i am not calling you a liar, i am calling you mistaken.

Shine

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2007/12/12 8:27
Shine
Shine (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 822
Since: 2002/7/22
#52

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

It was me who attended (with a topic on the Dutch XOOPS support) Herko that he was on the ImpressCMS sourceforge list. Herko himself didn't know he was even on this Impresscms list. He immediatly contacted the Impressgroup and asked to be deleted from that list.
Herko never did have admin or whatever rights on that list. The statement developer was just a title. Nothing more or less.
So for now, can these accusations stop please?

The only thing I would like to see is an off. statement of persons who are leaving or left XOOPS and went to impresscms and who will stay at xoops. That would make all things much clearer and than everybody can move on.
I am totally sick of all the accusations and mis informations and opreations behind doors.
Advice: make a clear and honest statement to the community aswell from XOOPS aswell from impresscms and than make your personal pick and move on.

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 8:40
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#53

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Yes, it indeed is very sad.

But this also is presenting a serious ethical, moral, and legal issue for the XOOPS Foundation Board of Directors: Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2.

First, let's set the baseline: Board of Directors of the XOOPS Foundation has the ethical, moral, and legal responsibility to look after the best interests of the XOOPS Project. Nothing different from a Board of Directors of any company. The mission of the Foundation is clear about it - it is to: "support the XOOPS Project and the XOOPS Community in any way it can." That's what Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2 committed to by becoming a member of the Board.

Now let's go through the timeline:

Sept. 13th: Marcan, while a member of the XOOPS Foundation, who is obligated to "support the XOOPS Project and the XOOPS Community in any way it can" creates ImpressCMS project, which is a fork of XOOPS, and thus a competitor of XOOPS:

a) he creates ImpressCMS project on SourceForge
b) he registers www.impresscms.org and www.impresscms.com, of which DNS address is then forwarded to his server INBOXHOSTING.COM

He is joined on this ImpressCMS project by Herko and David I2, while there are still members of the Board of Directors of the XOOPS Foundation and who supposed to look after XOOPS Interests!

All this is happening in a secretive manner. Outside, they present themselves as fully loyal XOOPS members, publishing on:

Oct. 10, 2007 XOOPS Manifesto

Nov. 14, 2007 New Community Initiatives

In the meantime they are actively recruiting XOOPS developers to join their efforts (current list as of Dec. 12 includes 20 developers.) All this while they are still members of the XOOPS Board of Directors.

Now, by ANY ethical, moral, and legal standard, this is a clear "breach of contract" and violation of their Board duties. One just CANNOT be in a good faith a member of the XOOPS Foundation with the mission to "support the XOOPS Project and the XOOPS Community in any way it can", and at the same time actively create a competing project and actively recruit developers from within the XOOPS Community for it.

Since The XOOPS Foundation / Stichting XOOPS is a legal entity under Dutch law, such behavior has clear legal consequences for the Members of the Board of Directors who are clearly acting in bad faith and with the intent to damage XOOPS - after all I don't think that anyone of them would believe that "Hey, if we create ImpressCSM, it will help XOOPS".

Therefore, I would like to formally request that:

a) Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2, have to IMMEDIATELY resign from the XOOPS Foundation, as they clearly violated the trust of the XOOPS Community and committed illegal and unethical activity.

b) Before they resign, the should appoint to the Foundation Board the current Project Leader, who is DJ. This will ensure continuity of the Board and fulfill the legal requirements of the XOOPS Foundation.

c) DJ and the Project Council will appoint additional members of the XOOPS community to the Board, so the Foundation can move forward with its tasks and objectives.


I truly hope that out of respect for the XOOPS community, Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2, will do the right thing and accept the consequences of their actions, which were clearly in violation of legal requirements of the XOOPS Foundation Board of Directors, and in violation of any ethical and moral standards that I know of, and resign from the XOOPS Foundation Board of Directors!

Come on guys - by creating ImpressCMS, a competing project for XOOPS, you've made your decision and crossed the legal, moral, and ethical line, so please be men about it, and resign from the XOOPS Foundation!
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BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/12/12 8:45
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#54

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Shine,
I looked at the list when it had 13 members .. Herko was not listed at that time. After that time I spoke with Mamba, and he pointed out to me in email that the list had increased... Later I went to the list and it was 22 And Herko was listed as a project manager. I specifically noted that.

I then composed a letter to Mamba based on this new relevation stating that it looked like the fork was now a reality after the joining of Herko, the foundation president.... I did not send that email because we had discussed this event enough I didn't feel I needed to comment futher, that event spoke for itself.

The next time I returned to the list it was back to 21 members and Herko's name was gone. That also spoke for itself.

I am aware of the conversation you had, as a matter of fact I translated it... Herko plainly stated he was not a developer. But he was not to be disregarded, even though he knew he was NOT on the list at that time. He did state he did not know whether he would remain with Impress, but he was definately there at the time and not on the developers list.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/12/12 8:54
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#55

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

I second that motion mamba, I also call for the resignation of the DPT leader Madfish, and ask for a replacement from within the remaining group that have not compromised their moral ethical standing with the community.

This DPT project has some members with ethics I can still believe in... and they should be allowed to finish what DJ started with his proposal plan for a better goverment of xoops.

...darcy
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 8:59
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#56

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

vaughan:
Quote:
actually, no money has been spent on impressCMS by the Foundation. not 1 single penny.


Actually, script_fu states:

Quote:
www.impresscms.org is being developed behind closed doors in private forums at xoopsinfo.com!


So if www.xoopsinfo.com is paid by the XOOPS foundation, and then being used for ImpressCMS related discussions, don't you agree that XOOPS project donations are funding indirectly the creation of ImpressCMS fork?

Do you think, it's ethically correct for you and others to use www.xoopsinfo.com, which is funded by XOOPS, to create a project competing with XOOPS?
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Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 9:07
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#57

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

vaughan:
Quote:
herko was made a developer yes, but he sent notice that he didn't want to join the project as a dev or anything, he is only giving advice,


Are you saying that one of the ImpressCSM Project Managers (AndrewVincent, JMorris, or Marcan) have signed up Herko as a developer without his knowledge and permission? Who was it?

But it's good to see that you acknowledge at least that he was involved in the ImpressCMS project. When Chairman of the XOOPS Foundation gives advice to a competitor of XOOPS, it shows clearly that the ethical and legal line is crossed
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MadFish

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 9:59
MadFish
MadFish (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 1056
Since: 2003/9/27
#58

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:
I second that motion mamba, I also call for the resignation of the DPT leader Madfish, and ask for a replacement from within the remaining group that have not compromised their moral ethical standing with the community.


Bluestocking, you have accused me of many things over the last month while working with the proposal team, including:

* Being a member of the Council, planted by DJ.
* Being a member of the Foundation, planted by Herko.
* Being a member of Impress, and (this takes the cake)
* Hacking your website.

These are all wrong. But of course, since you would never believe me, I invite you to:

i) Contact Herko and ask him if he thinks I was planted by DJ.
ii) Contact DJ and ask him if he thinks I was planted by Herko.
iii) Contact ANYONE at Impress and ask them if I have agreed to join that project.
iv) Since you have already retracted the bit about 'hacking' your website I guess we can leave that one alone.

Further, I also invite you to put your concerns about my involvement to the members of the draft proposal team via the email list you keep spamming them with. If a majority of them agree with you that I have 'morality issues' or think I am not acting in the best interests of project, I will cheerfully resign.

Fair enough?

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 10:02
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#59

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

vaughan:
Quote:
impress is open development. see the SF project site. anybody can join and is free to do so.


Vaughan,

can you confirm which exactly version of XOOPS will be the base for ImpressCMS?

2.0.17.1

which is the last official release of XOOPS?

Or the current 2.0.18 code as it is stored in SVN? If yes, what is the cut-off date for the XOOPS code you'll be utilizing?

If I would be upset with somebody and decide to fork the code, the moment I decided to leave is the cut-off time for me, and I wouldn't come back to look at what they do in the meantime and utilize any of the code created after that date - after all I want to prove that I can do it better myself, right? Since the ImpressCMS Fork was set on Sept. 13th, can we assume that ImpressCMS will not utilize any of the XOOPS code added to XOOPS SVN after Sept. 13th? If not, do you plan to have any official cut-off date for the XOOPS code?

Can we have some kind of official statement from the ImpressCMS Team on that?
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Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 10:11
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#60

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Madfish:
Quote:
iii) Contact ANYONE at Impress and ask them if I have agreed to join that project.


Are you saying that ImpressCMS is adding people to their rooster of developers w/o their explicit permission? That they never contacted you about it before they added you there?

If that's what is happening, why would they do it? To impress the XOOPS community and show that everybody is leaving the "sinking XOOPS ship" and jumping over to ImpressCMS?

If somebody would add me to such a list w/o my permission in order to create an impression on people that I support ImpressCMS, I would see it as a serious violation of my rights. What about you?
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