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11
skenow
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/14 22:29

  • skenow

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 993

  • Since: 2004/11/17


you know what jumps out at me? This part -

Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:

To Be appointed and Added by Leader Candiate.


Clarify for me, please, why this team would not be open for nominations, like every other team has been? Are you adopting one of the very behaviors that has been railed against repeatedly?

The proposal by sailjapan has some merits, but I am not clear how this is any different than open forums. The community has been quite good at announcing what doesn't work for them. And many patches and changes have occurred because of that feedback.

What is more commonly practiced is defining a task-oriented focus group and conducting usablity (or user acceptance) testing. Normally a small group, 5 - 10 people at most, given a list of tasks to complete and provide feedback on the effort and result of those tasks.

If such a group were gathered just prior to the alpha release of a new version, they would be commmited to testing and providing user acceptance feedback for the beta and final release candidates. Once the final release is published, they can debrief and be disbanded. Another group can be established for the next release series. If big software companies can do this, I think we might be able to learn from them.

Just another opinion.
12
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

Quote:

The community has been quite good at announcing what doesn't work for them. And many patches and changes have occurred because of that feedback.

___________
Clarify for me, please, why this team would not be open for nominations, like every other team has been? Are you adopting one of the very behaviors that has been railed against repeatedly?


In all reality, it wouldn't take a team.
ONE PERSON (crib) with the authority I proposed could handle the job of relaying to the top what users needed as he observed and became aware of those needs.

The appointment I suggested was if he needed help he could ask for it from those who he was serving. The end-user.

It seems as if XOOPS can only think in terms of teams there is no room for individual input.

End users need a spokesman with clout.
I believe Crib or sailjapan should be that person.

TWO: No, the end-user is lousy at letting you know what is needed. They can post it and it may be on the front page for a few hours... they go on about their business, and XOOPS keeps trucking on along. Not a clue they just lost another potential user.

I am NOT NOW a XOOPS END USER.

The community never heard my legimate complaint, or noted my need, so XOOPS is on the back burner until I learn how to communiate with the ptb to make XOOPS a more "end user" friendlier place.

BlueStockings
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
13
gtop00
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users' Team

  • 2007/6/14 22:58

  • gtop00

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 498

  • Since: 2004/11/13


Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:
...
It is hard to tell the difference, between then and now.

You are right. We urgently need ORGANIZATION and DECISIONS. Otherwise, we will discuss for ages (without results of course).
14
gtop00
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/14 23:23

  • gtop00

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 498

  • Since: 2004/11/13


Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:
...
ONE PERSON (crib) with the authority I proposed could handle the job of relaying to the top what users needed as he observed and became aware of those needs.

The appointment I suggested was if he needed help he could ask for it from those who he was serving. The end-user.

It seems as if XOOPS can only think in terms of teams there is no room for individual input.

End users need a spokesman with clout.
I believe Crib or sailjapan should be that person.

TWO: No, the end-user is lousy at letting you know what is needed. They can post it and it may be on the front page for a few hours... they go on about their business, and XOOPS keeps trucking on along. Not a clue they just lost another potential user.

I am NOT NOW a XOOPS END USER.

The community never heard my legimate complaint, or noted my need, so XOOPS is on the back burner until I learn how to communiate with the ptb to make XOOPS a more "end user" friendlier place.
BlueStockings


Only one innocent question: Why should any CRIB or George represent the End-Users? By the term End-User, do we mean some thousand people out from the 47.000 xoops.org members?

The End users are expressed daily by their posts in the Support Forums. It is very easy for the Project Council to take a look there;
The only things they need are: A functional, up to date, safe and well supported CMS.

The problem is not with the End users (I am one of them). It is with the project itself (lack of organization, no decisions).

Let's wait with patience to see what will happen.
Proposals are here, Comments are here, People are here. Let's wait for the decisions now.
15
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

Quote:

Only one innocent question: Why should any CRIB or George represent the End-Users? By the term End-User, do we mean some thousand people out from the 47.000 xoops.org members?


Good question.
I should have said potential end-user.

You see, I never licked the spam problem with CBB as an end-user so I shut it down and went with the straight html version, main page on my site. (I'm html literate) No problems, very good Google standing, and satisfies my needs.

Next, I tried two XOOPS wiki's and learned from this site the better wiki is not XOOPS dependent. It would make an excellent addition to my non-xoops site.

I am representative of many XOOPS end-user today. We are finding other ways to fill our needs. We express our discontent and this expression is transferred to a new theme, a better XOOPS outfit, everything we don't need.

If you went through your 40,000 plus users it may be surprising how many were one time users that have moved on because their end-user needs were not being addressed.

As a matter of fact, I recently went to members and pulled the ones who visited this site in the last 91 days. Somewhat over 3000, closer to four thousand. I went to a few homepages. Some were xoops, some weren't.

After a few visits I came away with a new vigor to get the wiki language module together - Other countries have so much to offer if we could only read the language.

Thank you Gibapa for opening my eyes to this.
Now, What am I doing here... Well, I have found a goal, help make XOOPS something I CAN USE.

BlueStockings
BTW: @xoops: your team member upsadaz was last years communication member, she went on to .... well, you know.
I was one of her "end-users". I just didn't follow her to
Joomali I decided to come over here and fight it out.
I'm truly an XOOPS end-user from many years back. I have probably been with you through most of your various upgrades. It sure doesn't look the same today as when I started being an XOOPS end-user.

In closing as an XOOPS end-user I had to find another XOOPS site if I wanted to continue being an ~xoops~ end-user.
And bingo, you're it!!!

@Gtop00 RE: your question... WHY Crip?
He is probably the only one who noticed the hole, at any rate he is the only one who held up his hand.
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
16
kc0maz
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/15 2:06

  • kc0maz

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 216

  • Since: 2005/4/18


I found the team names and their functions all a bit confusing. It almost like creating teams for the sake of creating teams. Before a team can be formed, there has to be a need for a function for that team to fulfill.

Often times the need for a temporary team may arise, to work on a specific project. For these short term projects it would be nice to have a pool of people to draw from, some time it is best to have people who are not already have other duties. However this is a discussion for another thread.

The end-user team / person sounds like a great idea. Some team/person to compile all the comments, complaints of the web masters, end-users, and ideas of those passing through and make reasonable recommendations to the various development teams.
Some dream of success, while others wake up and work for it.
--unknown
17
MadFish
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/15 3:49

  • MadFish

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1056

  • Since: 2003/9/27


One thing that I hope all teams will do is to develop a mechanism for encouraging and reviewing community suggestions and contributions, in a coordinated manner.

An example would be publishing an open task list (that community members can propose additions to, or take on themselves), and a procedure for reviewing/accepting/rejecting community contributions on a regular basis.

Teams need to look past their own membership to see how they can engage the *whole community* in their work. Closed teams that try to do everything internally will fail - this is an important XOOPS lesson from the past. Please don't repeat it!
18
sailjapan
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

Quote:
BlueStocking wrote:
...what I would suggest for SailJapan to lead.


Actually, I don't see this as a leadership situation really. The end-users don't need leading, they need representation. We are quite able to express for ourselves what we want, but it's the need to make sure that our voices are heard that led me to say that a 'Team' would be good.

Quote:
Davidl2 said:
And as has been said before.. if we have any more teams, we'd be able to fill a Football (or Soccer if you're American) League up!

and
Quote:
gtop00 said:
Having many “Teams” it sounds to me like to have “too many chiefs – no Indians”


If we really do have a community of 40,000, then I don't think 10 or so teams (80~100 people?) is really too many for the amount of work required.

Quote:
skenow wrote:
but I am not clear how this is any different than open forums.

This is a fair comment. I'm still thinking about it. Maybe the problem is that if you guys are all busy doing your jobs, you're hardly going to have time to get out of your own forums to notice an underlying trend scattered over a dozen or more open forums.

Quote:
Davidl2 said:
I see no point for the two teams - the roles could be combined.

I think it's about allowing people to concentrate. Assuming that you all have real lives and more important things to do, the clearer and more defined a role is, the easier it is to accomplish in a limited amount of time.

More later.

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.
19
gtop00
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/15 8:44

  • gtop00

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 498

  • Since: 2004/11/13


Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:
...
@Gtop00 RE: your question... WHY Crip?
He is probably the only one who noticed the hole, at any rate he is the only one who held up his hand.

Well, I assure you that it is not only Crip. There are hundreds or thousands. The problem is that there was NOBODY to listen and more important TO REACT. Again, we (end Users) are represented through the Support Forums here (as we are doing now). The question is if somebody listens and (hopefully) re-acts.
20
sailjapan
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

Quote:

gtop00 wrote:
Well, I assure you that it is not only Crip. There are hundreds or thousands. The problem is that there was NOBODY to listen and more important TO REACT. Again, we (end Users) are represented through the Support Forums here (as we are doing now). The question is if somebody listens and (hopefully) re-acts.


Maybe that's what I'm trying to say in the proposal, gtop00.
While we were all out there in the forums getting hot and bothered, it sure didn't feel like there was any way for us to pop our heads through the door and say "Erm, 'scuse me govn'r, the peasants would like a word."

All those horrible, internecine "she did this and he did that" forum posts between our erstwhile leaders created so much noise that the ordinary users didn't have a chance. Even when they did chime in with "Guys!, Are you listening?".

As I said earlier, Quote:
If such a team came into existence and remained silent for lack of problems, so much the better, but just in case...

and I mean that. Goodness, it's not like anyone wants to go knocking on doors, cap in hand. But if the time comes again when thing look to be getting silly again, surely better to have a system set up for it. Who knows, the various teams might come to us and say "We've got this new feature we want to try out. Can you find us some guinneapigs?" or "Hey, can you find out what the users think about this?"...

We're still developing this idea, and I for one, am much appreciative of the input so far. More please.

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.
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