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121
panigrc
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/12 23:08

  • panigrc

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 133

  • Since: 2005/4/14


Ok I read the complete thread ... and I think that is the wrong way.

It should sound like "Can the other CMS's compete with xoops?"

I mean I am lazy useless and have not much experiece in php , smarty etc (although I am good in java - study IT) but I could though hack some files, understand the structure, the database, the themes, templates etc.

I want now to show me a cms that you can do that , I don't think that there is any other than xoops.

Wich are our customers dear xoopsers ?? Do you know ?
I know !!

Our customers are not newbies that want to set up an simple stuning site in 2 seconds with all the flashes lights and cool colors.
Our customers are specialized proffessionals that sell XOOPS services to their customers. They need this good structure to customize XOOPS as more they can. If you don't understand what the programmer wanted to "say" and you are looking at the code for hours that is not good for your customer and your pocket. Though the XOOPS framework is ideal for developing new modules full customized.

And not forget the security. I don't know any secure cms than xoops. I ve seen phpbb attacked, phpnuke too, vbulletin sure but NO xooops!

So if you need that graphics too, find a good designer pay for it and I am sure that you get the best graphics for your site. XOOPS is to general to pay for all that stuff attention, if not then read the following.

In great companies we have some sections for example General Electric produces :
Electrical equipment
Medical equipment
Car equipment
even some things for the military

So what we need is to seperate(not divide - broke up) to sections/divisions like:
Core
Graphics
Modules
Content
Support
Promotion/Marketing

With this we can seperate the tasks to each team and will be very easy to develop rapidly xoops.
[size=xx-small]X-Park Greek Pc Modding Community
Official Greek Support at XoopsGreece.gr[/size]
122
damaster
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/12 23:32

  • damaster

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 556

  • Since: 2003/5/11


Agree !

The left hand do not need to know what the right hand does but they are both attached to the same body.

Do you know why the medical research are so expensive?
Because Labs want to keep secret their result to patent it.
And because they want to keep it secret, they don't communicate; because they don't communicate, they don't know what others have done and if they failed or not, so they repeat the same research, the same mistakes and it take more time and money to reach "the solution".



Edit:

I forgot to say that people die while paying for the remedy!
It may seems out of topic but illustrates the humain nature.
The parallel with XOOPS Project may be the time and resources that people invest...
I like people more than machines or money. But that's me!
Lets do something good and great: Lets do open source!
123
Mamba
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/13 0:05

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


Quote:
please please be patient.
everyone knows lack of our project.
skalpa is on the way to push XOOPS at a higher level.
he needs some quite area, to make our next version, more documented, more stable. Of course we want to share, but from now time is on work table, to make sharing possible.
he has worked these last weeks very hard, believe me.
I let him benefits to announce by himself what has been made and how things will go, he will do that in next few days.
thanks for your comments. you're right, but XOOPS needs to be pushed at a higher level, we need to communicate better, but this can be done only on a good core basis.


Of course, we can be patient. But if you mean by a "good core basis" a good source code, I'm not sure what you mean. You can communicate regardless of how good is your core. The communication issues won't go away, even the Skalpa comes with a major breakthrough in the code area.

It seems to me that it would be beneficial to reevaluate the current community processes. I would recommend to look at the more established and successful OpenSource project to find out what works and what doesn't, and what from the best practices could be applied to XOOPS community.

If Skalpa is working on the code, it doesn't prevent other people to publish the structure of the teams, to show who is on which team, and what are they responsible for. With a more transparent structure, it will be easier to understand how XOOPS works, who to contact, etc.

I would also like to see that we stop with any critical comments which could be read as personal attacks. I can see that some of the people here are frustrated, but if we care about this project, let's be civilized and professional. Let's raise issues (sometimes again and again), but let's not attack each other.

The Core Team is doing a great job overall, but as with every project, there are areas for improvement, and opportunity for them to learn on how to manage "Open Source projects", and not only code releases. This includes communication, processes for better community involvement, etc. Yes, it might require extra work in a unfamiliar teritory for some of them, but that's also part of growing - you either are willing to do it yourself, or you engage people who can do do it for you. If communication is a problem, get somebody who is good in communication. After all, we all want XOOPS to succeed, and the day has only 24 hour
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124
m0nty
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/13 0:10

  • m0nty

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 3337

  • Since: 2003/10/24


you know i was wrote a long post but well i timed out as i was havin 3 dif convs at the same time as writing..

so i aint gonna write the whole lot again.. it's a waste of time anyway, because most of what gets written in response to the demands given gets ignored anyway and responses like "well it's just words and no action"

but what i will say is:

hmmm well XOOPS 2.2.x release was open from the beginning, and fully open to every1, and look where that got us!!!

the alpha/beta stage got thousands of pointless posts on the forum asking stupid questions like 'i can't see the menu' this doesn't work, i upgraded my production website with a test development version of XOOPS that was still being written at the time and now it broke my site', can we have this feature, can we have that feature, oh that's good but it doesn't work..

so how open do you want it? the devs spent more time answering needless questions than they did writing code. and for what? the ungrateful responses they get from particular people.

people added devs to their messengers without asking just to ask questions like how do i fix my site it's got a blank page.. you know that really pees a lot of people off. if we want to speak to people on messenger, then we'll either ask them to add us, or we'll give permission to add us.

the general rule for most is It's a development version, there is NO support for a development version, so DON'T ask us how to use it!! if you want to use it, then learn yourself how to use it.. btw, coppermine photogallery is a very large project and they adopt a strict NO SUPPORT policy for their beta versions.. only bug reports/fixes are acknowledged.. i think that's a great policy from coppermine and cuts out all the crap..

with regards to news, well that's an in progress thing stay tuned.. but putting pressure on people like seems to be done? will not do anything to speed things up..

i'm against the deadlines issue because every1 works on their spare time, every1 has their own lifes, nobody can predict what's gonna crop up.. this isn't a JOB, there is no fixed working hours and nobody gets paid for it. so to demand deadlines is not gonna get anybody anywhere.

and same disclaimer as jmorris, this is my opinion and i am not speaking for xoops.org.. i'm just giving my opinions and reasoning.
125
Mamba
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/13 0:14

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


Quote:
LB, if there will be no strong news (&acts) in next few days,


you're definitely setting high expectations here

But that's where I see a flaw in the current proccess. This kind of news shouldn't come up only after people start to be impatient. It should be part of the process. The Roadmap has been published, so there should be a communication about where we are, and what is the status, w/o big surprises - negative or positive. Otherwise you'll condition the community to wait and do nothing, because they will live from one big news to the other.

I really would suggest a process where the next big steps are being presented, then discussed in the community, feedback collected, and only then decisions made and communicated.

What you saying is that somebedy will throw something big over the wall to us, but we won't be able to discuss it and provide feedback. Is this correct?
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126
LazyBadger
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

Some comments, can't resist

Quote:

panigrc wrote:
It should sound like "Can the other CMS's compete with xoops?"
And anwser will be short and easy: "Yes, at least some subset"
Drupal - have more power
Xaraya - have more power
... and I'll skip hi-end CMS, as Plone, Typo3, ezPublish

Quote:
I want now to show me a cms that you can do that , I don't think that there is any other than xoops.
You are wrong, and show only lack of experience in this are.
Xaraya
Drupal
even Mambo/Joomla
are not to hard to understanding (and I see a lot more "local" coders for , f.e., Mambo, than for XOOPS)
Quote:

Wich are our customers dear xoopsers ?? Do you know ?
I know !!

I know too, and our knowledge is dramatically different... This can mean only one thing - there aren't absolute true, there are more than two (black&white) colors in the world
Quote:

Our customers are not newbies that want to set up an simple stuning site in 2 seconds with all the flashes lights and cool colors.

Our clients can be unexperienced web-users, which want to have these fashionable pieces, but found <...> to complex for own brains... and discovered "XOOPS - usable even for idiots"

Quote:
And not forget the security. I don't know any secure cms than xoops. I ve seen phpbb attacked, phpnuke too, vbulletin sure but NO xooops!

I know, and that? Nothing perfect exist, at least long... Yes, XOOPS have less problem, than some other system, but ask: "Why?"... One of answers - because it's unknown to wide audience system, sporadically used and mentioned. Get popularity as PHP-Nuke - and XOOPS sites will be hacked a great more amount of times

XOOPS.org (Project) have a huge set of died Teams, every new team change only rank of memebers, nothing more
You can see some teams here - and note, what last time changes not reflected on this page... Site not maintained, it's frozen, except sporadical (user-submitted) news and overactive forums

News Team - died
Liason Team - died
Module Development - died with XOOPS 2.2
Theme Design - died
Quality Control - have some own "internal" life, doesn't affect module quality at all
Support - died... or at least invisible and useless in forums
Documentation - died... Current docs is a bad parody on "documentation"
Community Relations - died... Obviously...
Product Development - died. We haven't product, or something like as "Concept of product". And XOOPS can't be product now, it's more question, than answer.
Joomla - product, brand
Drupal - product, solution
Xaraya - product, even site show it
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Webmaster of
XOOPS2.RU
XOOPS Modules Proving Ground
XOOPS Themes Exhibition
127
Mamba
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/13 0:41

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


Quote:
XOOPS.org XOOPS.org (Project) have a huge set of died Teams, every new team change only rank of memebers, nothing more
You can see some teams here - and note, what last time changes not reflected on this page... Site not maintained, it's frozen, except sporadical (user-submitted) news and overactive forums

News Team - died
Liason Team - died
Module Development - died with XOOPS 2.2
Theme Design - died
Quality Control - have some own "internal" life, doesn't affect module quality at all
Support - died... or at least invisible and useless in forums
Documentation - died... Current docs is a bad parody on "documentation"
Community Relations - died... Obviously...
Product Development - died. We haven't product, or something like as "Concept of product". And XOOPS can't be product now, it's more question, than answer.
Joomla - product, brand
Drupal - product, solution
Xaraya - product, even site show it


Thanks for posting the link. I am guilty of not seing it before. Yes, it seems like there is some outdated information, and some of the teams are not working. But let's not see it only as a problem, but as an opportunity. The good news is that there was some structure before, and at the first look it seems like a reasonable idea, so we can build from it!!!! We might need to re-energize some of the teams, get fresh blood on some of them, get new leaders in place, etc., but it's there, and we can build on this.

Badger, in reading several of your postings, it seems to me that you tend to see glass half-empty. If you could for a minute see the glass half-full, which areas would you recommend to focus on to make XOOPS a better and more successful project? Which areas/teams are good and working, so we can use them as a role model for other teams within XOOPS?
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128
LazyBadger
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

Quote:
hmmm well XOOPS 2.2.x release was open from the beginning, and fully open to every1, and look where that got us!!!

the alpha/beta stage got thousands of pointless posts on the forum

Well, it shows only quality of current XOOPS-userbase, and such userbase is result of past and current policy

Quote:
i'm against the deadlines issue because every1 works on their spare time, every1 has their own lifes, nobody can predict what's gonna crop up.. this isn't a JOB,

This is RESPONSIBILITY, and ability to formulate purposes and tasks, to plan and to distribute its time and possibilities, to know how to reasonably split them, with the confidence and respect for users, without forcing them to wander in the darkness of guesses, if plans are disrupted
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Webmaster of
XOOPS2.RU
XOOPS Modules Proving Ground
XOOPS Themes Exhibition
129
davidl2
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/13 0:43

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


"Newsteam died"

Monty and I aren't buried yet thank you.

At least my corpse is still very mobile.
130
davidl2
Re: can xoops compete with joomla?

  • 2005/12/13 0:45

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


LazyBadger wrote:
Quote:

This is RESPONSIBILITY, and ability to formulate purposes and tasks, to plan and to distribute its time and possibilities, to know how to reasonably split them, with the confidence and respect for users, without forcing them to wander in the darkness of guesses, if plans are disrupted


Unfortunately something called REAL LIFE gets in the way of your fantasy never-never land....

It's called WORKING FOR A LIVING. Unfortunately some of us have to do it, and supporting a lot of ungreatful people who cry at the least thing does not pay the bills.

And again - this is my opinion and not an official one!!!
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