I think that the spirit of XOOPS and it's users will win out in the end in regards to this contest. That is, if any potential entrant has a question to ask in relation to theme design/css/html etc, he should be able to get it answered by anyone who would normally answer those questions, without worrying about if it's going to help the questioner win the contest. After all, XOOPS is the winner in the end. I'm not against a cash prize, because in the unlikely event that I was to win a prize, I would be donating at least some of it back to XOOPS anyhow. The rest would go to making me a better theme designer - software purchases etc.

brash, first of, thanks for clarifying your position, is very much appreciated!

Now to what you said...

Quote:

I wonder how you come to this conclusion....

Quote:

...if that's the case, why would they bother enter a competition regarding designing a theme?

Again coming back to selfconfidence! If you want to win, or if you want to take part in a design comp, you'll make sure you understand this. If not, you shouldn't participate, or better expressed, you wont even think about participating.

Further, it is not desireable (in my eyes) to have a bunch of people to sign up, only to have them halfway through realize, they are not up to it, giving up, and leaving us with too many expected entries which never arrive (which will be unavoidable, but as you mentioned business process, this is in someway labelled Risk Minimization - just as you are attempting with the pole!)

Are these people you want to motivate? Why motivate someone to do something that needs a level of expertise (as you have pointed out), as much as it takes a bit of ambition and passion for design, if they have never shown previously this kind of interest? Sorry mate, but that sounds like the people you are trying to attract.

POLL
The convincing argument: if we want sponsors, they will want to know how many people to expect! Everything else is not of interest, as this theme contest is more about calling attention, getting people motivated to churn out themes, and establish the Theme Forge. I see this all in the light of the Theme Forge opening!

OR , maybe we have allready talked too much, and you guys are right, at the end only a handfull sign up...my suggestion, instead of a poll, a pre-signup: let's create a list, where people enter themselves, or the group they will be the head/project manager of, as interested. We will then email all, two week before official signup beginnn.

To share some thoughts:
- announce comp beginn with opening of forge
- 6 weeks until submission
- one can sign up, until one week before end (leaving enough room and time, for those that change their mind, and do want to participate; maybe an individual will be inspiered by the team work, and decied to also hand in, their indiv. theme)

Regarding resources managing all submissions, the above mentioned period gives us enough time to organize this.

I should also mention, that I'm not only thinking about having entrants from the XOOPS community. Actually, I am hopeing, that we might attract some designers from other portal/cms/label of the day/..., as well as those interested in web design in generall.


OK, so I take back my statement regarding a pole being a waste of time: brash and Jmass have convinced me! I chat with Herko about this, and see what he thinks (if he doesn't post his opinion prior )

Update
Sent a message to Herko, asking for his opinion (regarding poll)...

Regarding cash prize....only if we find someone that will sponsor it!

As I'm not going to run around with a hat...

While everything said I see as valid, let's face reality, most people are motivated by CASH! (see, I don't see everything from a personal, subjective perspective )

It is obvious that we have vasty differerent views of what this contest should represent. I see it as a community event to raise awareness of XOOPS with participation welcome and encouraged by all. A community event to my mind is defined by INclusion, not EXclusion. Dismissing those who are interested in makng themes, but are only just starting out to my mind goes against this.

I don't know about you but I did not wake up one day, read a few tutorials and suddenly know how to put together a theme. When I submitted my first theme 18 months ago(karate_redux_blue) I had VERY little knowledge of HTML, CSS or how the relationship between the two, let along W3C validation. I started out by just hacking around in a few CSS files with little knowledge of what I was doing, but with perseverance and a little guidance I was able to get the result I wanted. It is the people who are still at this level that you are going to ostracise by running the contest in the way you've suggested.

Another thing is how many designers are there out there that would be willing/able to put the time in to a project like this that posses the level of skill it seems you assume to be a standard/base level? Unless there are a LOT of sleepers out there that don't make their presence known I can't imagine there would be too many. In additon to this, if we are to have judges then they should all be right up there skill wise, but at the same time they should not be able to enter the contest as it is a conflict of interest, especially if money is involved. Again the candidate pool grows smaller.

This is beside the point though, it's all about Xoops, and I don't see catering specifically for a couple of dozen people capable of designing a top notch theme at the expense of everyone else best represents XOOPS interests. This is just my 2c though.

We do indeed have two different viewpoints, now it is up to the others, to provide their input.

I see your point, and hope others see its valid points. I am just affraid that this approach will rather backfire (if "it's about xoops", as there would be too much of the same old). Having writen this, I must state, that this will depend on our performance as organizers.

You are definetly talking about a whole different kind contest, than I am. Yours actually sounds more like a 'fun community get together', while I regard mine as being of the 'rough competitive' type (please trust me, that this is no attempt to belittle your opinion, and trying to put mine in a shiny light).

Let me try an attempt, to unite our "worlds"...

My ideas where modeled for a one time event, which might become periodicall.

When thinking about what you said, an ongoing contest rather comes to mind. Every month (or two) we (the organizers) select a theme out of the Theme Library. Then we define goals, of what should be done to theme. This can range from making a theme validate, to redesign this theme to fit into .

The later being open solemnly to non-professionals (professionals being people who earn their money with theme design), but they are allowed to ask the Theme Forge community (or xoops.org community, or any where else) for help and assistance. And having a yearly event on pro level.

This long time contest, is a way of getting people to learn and be productive for XOOPS at the same time. Is this more along the lines of your thoughts brash? Or am I missing your point totally...


BTW: thanks for the time and effort your putting in!

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT BRASH AND I (with a few others) HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING?

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?

OK, if the contest is going to be aimed at professionals or intermediates then I think it becomes much less community orientated, and more along the lines of a business dealing. As such the rules & conditions should be laid down pretty thick, and I also think that having a cash prize takes on a whole new light.

A few points that come to mind:

- First prize should be significant, as in $500US or more. As we would really be wanting to attract professionals to this that are not necessarily from within the XOOPS community we cannot rely on the community spirit to attract submissions. Professional theme designers do what they do for a living, we can not offer chicken feed as a prize, nor can we ask them to do it for the greater good.

- Should we be limiting the number of submissions per user/team? I ask this as if we do we are really opening the potential for getting bugger all themes out of this as I'd say we can only really expect at tops about a dozen themes that are of spec to come from the XOOPS community (hence why cash prize takes on such a new and important roll).

- There should be 3~4 judges which I feel should be from the XOOPS core team. Sorry for "volunteering" your time like this guys, but I think it is best so as to ensure judgement integratey, especially if money is involved. Judges should also be not allowed to enter their own themes as individuals or as a team (conflict of interest).

- Other suggestions will come

This sounds like a great suggestion to me. I havn't read though the 60 odd replies as yet so this might have already been discussed. My opionion is:

The winner gets theme designer rank or something and gets like a spotlight theme or whatever on the theme library for a bit of time. The other themes get put into the libary to be enjoyed?

Also for the voting have the judges pick some of the best that follow the rules etc and then but them in the libary to be rated by other XOOPS users and the winner gets the above.

Just my opinion anyway

i hope, we can find a solution which will satisfy both sides of positions which on the one hand want to have a community event and on the other hand, what herko stated, a winning theme to be distributed with every XOOPS install. Sure there are different standards and i can share (and argue) both positions depending on the aim we want to reach.

sorry to hear that you do not want to see a layout of mine but i did not intend to take part as a subscriber in a contest. As i have stated in an earlier post i'm happy to help and i will be proud to take part as a "judge". (if there is nothing against this..)

Perhaps we can have 2 events (or event one with different categories for i do not think that there will be too much input which could not be handled)

but ...
LETS HAVE AN EVENT !!

Whoa.. what's going on here with the contest... I haven't been on XOOPS for many days. I guess I have to read all the 9 pages of posts.

Well, like others I've not read through the 9 pages or so... just the last one.

I'm sure someone already suggested this, but why not have different levels in the contest? Something that allows a level of entry for everyone, and each with thier own reward?

Not to sound concieded, but I would not enter a theme contest where everyone was judge on the same level as I have a very unfair advantage over many others (Being both a program and designer that has worked with XOOPS for 2.5 years). However, if there was an "Expert" (for lack of a better name) category that had very restrictive requirements (compliance to web standards) I would enter, but not unless there were other categories for others to enjoy.

Although I do not have any exact suggestions on what those categories may be, I believe we could accomidate most with a few different levels, each being EQUAL in their reward, just different levels of restrictions.

At judging we could also evelaute them and bump an entry up a class if it's clearly to "advanced" for the category it was submitted too (just to be fair to others).

Anyway, that's my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.