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XOOPS: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Posted by: AnonymousOn 2003/12/23 13:00:02 6799 reads

Due to a configuration error with our mailing list, you may receive emails that you should have not. Either with emails bouncing or with in some cases 'Xoopsters' returning 'our good will gesture for this coming Xmas'.

We would like to apologise for this and we have rectified this problem as in as much we have stopped the 'worst' of this problem. But due to the way some servers handle email, you may still receive some of this back log for another couple of days.

This good will gesture email for this holiday season was 'NOT' an attempt to spam or any other reason and should not be seen as such.

We urge you NOT to start any new threads within our forum regarding this topic. As we hope that this will now clear up this matter for once and for all. We will lock now lock all topics regarding this matter and any future ones posted. We hope you understand the reason for this.

We hope that you will understand that this was an error and nothing more.

Again from the Xoops Team

Merry Xmas and a wonderful new year and thank you for your co-operation on this matter.

Xoops Team.

The comments are owned by the author. We aren't responsible for their content.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 13:29 Joined Comments

I'm not happy. Please remove me completely.

Comloog

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 13:31 Joined Comments

I for one do not understand why your locking the forums regarding prolly biggest internet blunder bye any one web site to date!!

Questions have not been answered such as why did those who had *receive mail* unchecked receive this Christmas Message, and violating indevidual privacy on several levels.

Why was a list created and set up so amatuerish for this to happen?

Why was a list used instead of Xoops?

Who made this decision to use a list?

I was prepared to accept this spamming ( and thats what it is regardless of goodwill )as an error and posted to this effect on threads, when none of the XOOPS team were around to deal with the reaction of said rank amatuer mailing.

Now you decide to lock the forums and by doing so forbid any further discussion on YOUR ERROR.

This is not good enough

Serge Krasilovksi

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 13:57 Joined Comments

The fact is that at the end of the day it was an error, nothing more or nothing less. It was corrected and we tried our best to limit the amount of posts sent out that where not supposed to be.

I alone took the responsibility to lock these topics due to the fact that we have tried on many occasions to apologise for this error and we have now done this via a news story. I felt there was no need to keep a topic going once a reasonable explanation was given in the way it has now been.

We can only apologise so many times to the same question via many different topics and posts. I am sure that you can understand this yourself.

As to your other questions, at the end of the day pointing fingers and blaming one person for this will not help the situation any. This is a lesson we have learnt and will take onboard in future.

As to the fact that we have been spamming people is in fact incorrect, we had no intentions of spamming anyone. It was a Seasons greeting from us (The XOOPS Development team) to all our registered users. That is not spam, but in fact a genuine email.

When a user or group intentionally email the same person with unsolicited email with no intention of stopping, to me is considered 'spamming'. Once we realised that there was a problem, we did everything in our power to stop any further emails from getting to your email boxes.

Again, we do apologise to everyone for this and we can assure you we will do other best for this situation not to happen again.

If you do not wish to receive email from us in the future, then we ask you to change your settings within your account and we will honour this.

ATB

Catz

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 14:18 Joined Comments

Catz wrote
Quote:

If you do not wish to receive email from us in the future, then we ask you to change your settings within your account and we will honour this.

Catz thanks for the reply.

People have asked why they received this mailing when their settings were set NOT to receive mail from the site.

I know who made the mailing, I know it was unintentional, I know the site is plastered with apologies

As mentioned in the now I assume locked threads An email telling everyone what happened and an explantion will do more to stop this blizzard of email. My email box is still receiving from those asking ME not to mail them again ever!

I had expected the XOOPS team to come up with something better than locking the forums and saying you can only apologise so many times.

As also mentioned in one of the threads not everyone comes here on a daily basis, and they do not know about the apology or even what has happened, why etc. To them there email account is stuffed with mail

As for finger pointing, the damage is done. Getting the word out why it has happened and letting these people know is in my opinion more important than locking the forums so no one else can say their peace on what is a spamming, especially those who have their setting set NOT to accept mail from the site.

However I dont run this site, or a discussion of what is and what is not spam relevant. Its who thinks its spam is probably more the point.

Finally yet again locking the forums is your choice, but smacks of trying to minimise the damage, and sweeping the whole sorry business under the carpet.

Cheers

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Olivier Published 12/23/2003 14:24 Just popping in Joined 06/16/2002 Comments 16

Thank you XOOPS team

i don't understand people who are so angry !

they seem to have never done any mistakes !
And was it really a mistake ? Can't XOOPS Team wish us a merry Christmas ?

If some people must be blamed it's those who criticized that ! because they dn't complain against the spam they become each day in their mail box but a christmas message can't be tolerated !

And those who are still registered there but with a different e mail who have generated error messages ? Aren't they guilty ?

But it's christmas time so why complaining ! just relax and tell every one Merr christmas and happy new year

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

talunceford Published 12/23/2003 15:07 Just can't stay away Joined 08/14/2002 Comments 532

Boy, Im glad I don't live in a glass house like some people..........

People, go drink some more eggnog.......

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

tom Published 12/23/2003 15:37 Friend of XOOPS Joined 09/21/2002 Comments 1359

I agree Olivier, I was recieving a mass amount, but at the end of the day I figured it was a mistake, WE all make them, get over it.

OK Olivier imagine what they would be like if the XOOPS team didn't release to them the next XOOPS with some pretty major and impressive improvements, well I still don't think they would have a reason to be annoyed after everything XOOPS has already given them is more than most (I said most) of their input back.

After everything XOOPS has offered them, forgiveness is return is a pretty small thing to ask for back, and it's Christmas too.

So I'm standing with Olivier and all the XOOPS team on this one, THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME SO MUCH, OFFERING ME SO MUCH AND ASKING FOR VERY little BACK IN RETURN.

Merry Christmas All.

Tim

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

F3ign Published 12/23/2003 16:34 Just popping in Joined 12/17/2003 Comments 10

I appreciate the Holiday Greetings and all the good things the XOOPS team has done. Keep up the good work.

I hope this incident does not deter you from sending out cheers next year.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

supernix Published 12/23/2003 16:53 Not too shy to talk Joined 03/13/2003 Comments 151

Hi,
Thanks for the Christmas message. I would have preferred it spelled Christmas instead of Xmas.

You can pretty much bet the losers that want to cast stones at the XOOPS team have done little to nothing to contribute financially or contributed to the code and community.
My best suggestion to them is if they want to be so hateful as to get mad at the XOOPS team then go use another CMS post haste. I am sure the group would be alot better without them.

The person that tells you they don't ever make a mistake is a bold outright liar.

I receive tons of spam and work constantly to fight it. I also use many methods to catch it and report it if I feel the need. But the list they created was definitely [bNOT spam and how dare anyone cast such a negative remark at such wonderful people that have done so much to help all of us[/b]. I only wish I could contribute more to writing code for the CMS. Preferably a bible module ( hint hint )

Locking the threads or forums was a good call but I also would have deleted the offensive persons off the site. I have a low tolerance for hateful remarks and am not as lenient as the XOOPS team.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

CBlue Published 12/23/2003 17:03 Joined 06/28/2003 Comments 1244

I don't see how sending out an apology email from xoops.org would help. If those people who have the bouncing emails were smart, they would now have a email block set in their email program to block all incoming emails from XOOPS until they feel it is safe to unblock again.

Some of them, as they seemed to imply in their posts, don't want emails from XOOPS again anyway...so they should just setup their email programs to not get emails from XOOPS permanently then, instead of complaining about it.

I didn't get the email from XOOPS and if I had and had started receiving a bunch of bounced emails, I wouldn't have complained because I know it was a mistake and not done with any malice.

The XOOPS staff are wonderful people and would never do anything to hurt the members of this community.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Re: Xmas email problem no big deal

DobePhat Published 12/23/2003 17:05 Friend of XOOPS Joined 04/15/2003 Comments 656

SERGE:
Dude you remind me of a former troll on my site...that waited for us to make the slightest mistake and then just totally rails against us and cries 'conspiracy'!

It was obvious it was simple mistake...and was the first time I ever recieved a note from xoops!

I had to reply because....from experience...
Hey, its really detrimental to any online community to post such posts as to hint that a "conspiracy" or "underhandings" are going on, specially when so much work is put into it on peoples free time. It's hurtful. I hope you never encounter such users on any forum you have but your "karma" ranking aint looking so good , bro.

But no ill feelings, eh? Best wishes to you and yours and everyone!From the hard core coders to those who have accelerated their knowledge of php in just a few months...(like myself) this greeting was meant for us all!

THANK YOU XOOPS!
I for another, thought it was nice to recieve a note from you all! Happy Holidays!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

ToXin Published 12/23/2003 17:08 Just popping in Joined 10/06/2002 Comments 1

hello xoops-team. thanks for your xmas-mail. i'm not happy about getting same mail about over 60 times...

but i know it was a mistake and i hope some other users understand that nobody is perfect and you do your best...

best wishes and a happy new year, toxin

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 17:20 Joined Comments

You know. Last night this site was hammered by irate posters leaving cuss words and their ire in posts, and asking non to politley to be removed from membership, a lot of the posts have been removed now, quietly vanished

I was here when this kicked off quietly reading the CVS when I noticed my email bin filling with bounce mails from all and sundry, then I noticed posts appearing on site about being spammed. For several hours i was receiving approx 50 an hour. If I was so was many others.

I figured it was a mistake, an accident, but many, many people did not, and judging by some of the posts. They rightly so, wanted to know why their private email accounts were being spammed, and why they were receiving email when within their profile setting they elected NOT to receive mail from the site. This is what made it SPAM

Others who posted their comments to what was happening, were none too chuffed. Points were posted that a lot of people who do not come here every day nor every month, suddenly finding their email accounts filled with a mistake mailings, bounce backs, and replies to bounce backs telling others not to mail them again, in several different languages. There were threats of reporting the site to spamcop and other RB lists. As others checked their accounts more appeared and the thing snow balled in short it was out of control. Some were even tracking the mail!

As mentioned I was here. Cblue was in here too and I think Stewido and Kenegan a few others were here and tried to offer reassurance that this was a dramtic error, and not a mass spamming. Herko showed up at some point too, claiming all was resolved, but it wasnt. He clearly said it was a mistake as well. Although this site has membership in the thousands its only a small core who come and log in regularly. Also there will be many people who have forgotten they even joined the site. So the majority didnt know what was going on. To them this was more than just a simple error.

When the morning came round I fully expected a full explanation of what had happened and even perhaps an email sent out as member Kenegan suggested with proper reply to headers expalaining to the masses who dont know and most likley still do not know, what happened and why. I expected it becuase it would have been the professional thing to do.

Instead there is the announcement above that this comment is attached to, mentioning a configuration error and a request urging us not to make any posts, and informing us that existing forums will be locked, therby forbidding any further discussion on this matter. This might pass if everyone visited the site but they dont.

This is also not about the good and the hard work the devs do for XOOPS and therofore for the benefit of us who use it and everyone is allowed to make a mistake.

This was more than just an error it was a mass spamming ( unsolicited mail including the christmas message ) however accidentally set off, a mass security blunder of peoples privacy. People deserve a better explanation than the announcement above. They deserve a full apology not just published on site but sent to them. So the ones who dont visit and were subjected to ( what was to them a mass spamming ) this accidental mailing know. I suppose that wont happen.

What would appear to be happening is damage control of a serious breach of confidence and and peoples private details, and that is just not good enough.

No doubt I will be flamed for being un -xoops and as I just read reminding others of trolls and such like, Some active members of this site are a tad over protective and if nothing is said good about XOOPS then we are flamed, mobbed even. I have seen it many times with others who dared to speak their minds.

Serge

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Herko Published 12/23/2003 17:59 XOOPS is my life! Joined 02/04/2002 Comments 4238

I understand -and in a large part share- your feelings and opinion Serge. But let me explain a few things, and tell you my side of this story.

First of all, XOOPS has had a turbulent year. At the beginning of this year, XOOPS 2 was released, at the same time e-XOOPS started it's fork. This is an important event, because it meant that our greatest asset, you the community, would show us if our choices for XOOPS were the right ones. And apparently, they were. This year, the XOOPS community has more then DOUBLED in size, with all the benefits and troubles that come with it. One of the things that we noticed, was a lack of organisation, other then development. The past few months, I have worked hard, with the rest of the XOOPS Core Team, to fix that. And the community responded positively.

Now, christmas and the new year are around the corner. I wanted to send an e-mail to ALL XOOPS.org members (yes, not just the ones that have set 'recieve occasional messages from admin/moderators' to 'yes'), to say THANK YOU ALL for making this possible. Since it was supposed to be a ONE-TIME-ONLY message, I didn't think many people would have minded. And, if things had gone right, I think that would still stand. But alas, it didn't go right.

I take full responsibility for what happened. That means that I'm fully aware of the guilt, but that, other then what we as the Core Team and admins of the xoops.org servers have already done, there's nothing I can do about this anymore. XOOPS doesn't have the capability to send e-mails in HTML format or with attachments (yet), so I had to look for something else to send the mail. I did it using a Mailinglist. I know how they work, but I made a mistake when I thought I had configured it such that it would only accept and send messages by me. As soon as we found out, we dropped the e-mail address, preventing more mails being sent to the list, and then we dropped the list altogether. We also emptied the sendmail message queueu, so we are sure that the server isn't sending any more mails from the list.

I have had a terrible day because of this, simply because I didn't want to do this. I must have apologised over 20 times, and sincerely all those times. The list sent only 12 mails, any other mails must have been generated by mail servers or something. All I know for sure is that we accidently sent 12 mails too many, for which I am deeply sorry.

Now you have a full and honest account and explanation.

Herko

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 18:51 Updated 12/23/2003 18:52 Joined Comments

Hello Herko

Thanks for the reply and taking the time to explain.

I know it was a non intentional, a mistake.

Perhaps a brief explanation by (gasp) email will repair any un-inintentional damage done to those who thought it a mass spamming and dont know any better, as well as the site posting??

However the team decides...... your call.

I do appreicate your work , time and effort that goes into Xoops, from all of you.

Merry Christmas and a Guid new Year

Serge

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

malexandria Published 12/23/2003 20:14 Updated 12/23/2003 20:16 Quite a regular Joined 12/23/2001 Comments 281

I'm not quite sure what the big brouhaha is about since I only received one Christmas email. I think those that are complaining are being a little too harsh and "ungrateful." The XOOPS dev team, and Herko specifically have worked tirelessly over the last few months to bring you all this fine piece of software.

All Herko wanted to do was send out a simple email thanking the community, things went awry, Herko and the other devs have stated numerous times that they made a mistake. At this point this entire issue should drop. Serge it would be stupid to send out another email explaining what happened. That's sending out more "spam" to explain what happened with the first "spam" to begin with.

Not to mention, I personally get sick and tired of people constantly whining about "spam," yes it's gotten out of control (I receive 600 emails a day 90 percent of is spam) and something needs to be done, but in this specific instance, I really don't think members of the community should be complaining. You are getting quality software for free, and the message was only meant to wish everyone a happy holiday.

Everyone did their mea culpas, and fell on their swords for the team, the issue should be dropped. What more do you expect the Devs to do or say?

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/23/2003 20:40 Joined Comments

Didnt take you long to come out with the old chestnut of yours 'your getting softeware for free so dont complain' Put up or shut up is it? What you going to do if we all stop using it.

Twould be too late now to send out a email I agree, professionally it would have been sent immediatly.

I was in here with others batting for XOOPS when one of the core team should have been. Maybe when you next hatch out yur game plans you might consider having this site supported 24 hours a day, instead of relying on us lower moaning members, who use your free software, therby justifying your existence.

Merry Christmas

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Olivier Published 12/23/2003 21:06 Just popping in Joined 06/16/2002 Comments 16

I don't think the
Quote:

You are getting quality software for free, and the message was only meant to wish everyone a happy holiday.

was to say

this software is free so don't complain if we made mistake

But more than what herko said wish to every people who have made it possible a merry christmas !

I was there when e-xoops was created, i saw important french member leaving xoops, but i have never hesitated (easy to say now you probably think, yes but i was a XOOPS 2 beta tester so my choice was already made (only have to understand it

)) XOOPS is, to my mind, the best community in the world.

And even if XOOPS is a big communities they thought to wish us a merry christams ! So I want to say again (and i think i will say it quite often) THANK YOU XooPs !!!!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Chainsaw Published 12/23/2003 21:44 Quite a regular Joined 09/28/2003 Comments 304

As Charlie Brown would say, "Good grief!!!"

For those people who are complaining... XOOPS is a soft target. Why don't you complain to all the real spammers who fill your email box with emails about Viagra or porn? No? Cos you know either your reply will indicate your email addy is real or you just accept it. Those are the REAL SPAMMERS. XOOPS did something out of goodwill.

The XOOPS team made a small mistake. COME ON, LET'S CRUCIFY ONE OF THEM ALRIGHT? Maybe that will make you heathens happy. Where are your Christmas spirit, (if you are Christian) and if you are not, where is your humanity to forgive a small mistake?

And for those NOOBIES out there... this happen every year around this time with many (I REPEAT MANY) other mailing lists and companies that did not configure their list or servers correctly.

BTW - Thanks for the Xmas wishes. I made an Outlook rule to delete all subsequent emails with the same heading when I realised it created a reply storm.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

kahumbu Published 12/23/2003 21:46 Updated 12/23/2003 21:50 Documentation Writer Joined 08/23/2003 Comments 277

I get that the XOOPS dev team wanted to send their Christmas cheers. And I also get that they made a mistake and apologized for it.

In the spirit of Christmas, let us forgive and forget.

We are webmasters of our own sites and all of us, not only the XOOPS dev team, probably learned something from this--about SPAM, mailing lists, etc. I suggest we take our lessons and move on.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

zer0fill Published 12/24/2003 6:44 Updated 12/24/2003 6:56 Not too shy to talk Joined 12/02/2003 Comments 137

Dang Serge, you really need to chill out. you know it was a mistake but you keep bringing up the same arguments. the XOOPS team has already fixed the problem but because email works, residual emails will continue flowing which is out of their control.

Quote:

Maybe when you next hatch out yur game plans you might consider having this site supported 24 hours a day, instead of relying on us lower moaning members, who use your free software, therby justifying your existence.

WOW! you want these guys, who do all this FOR US, to support the site 24/7 too? You do realize that no one gets a salary from being on the XOOPS team right? And speak for yourself when you say "us lower moaning members." stop it already with this "owe is me" attitude. As you've seen already, they've been busy apologizing in several separate threads in the forum. I'm sure the XOOPS team has lives too ya know.

I want to say I just started using XOOPS from a friend's recommendation and truly love it. My work is in the process of converting the employee site (from postnuke) to xoops. also, it's taking no time at all for me to port my smarty-enabled apps to xoops. I think that's saying a lot about XOOPS considering the documentation is a bit lacking.

Xoops is an awesome CMS so please cut them some slack on their first mistake. We all make mistakes so you really ought to relax and squash it.

Sorry for my fanboy-ish attitude, for someone who has only used this for 1-2 weeks, but it really burns me when someone just keeps on complaining after there have been soo many apologies. give it a rest.

Thanks for the Holiday greeting Xoops! Have a safe and merry X-Mas

We all want you back next year for XOOPS 2.1 *drools*

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Kenegan Published 12/24/2003 9:07 Updated 12/24/2003 9:09 Just popping in Joined 09/02/2002 Comments 10

spam v. n. To mass-mail unrequested identical or nearly-identical email messages. Any large, annoying, quantity of output.

Herge - It has been clearly highlighted that this ('identical') Christmas greeting went out to ALL XOOPS registered users ('mass-mail'), and its clear from comments made that many of those individuals had their accounts marked for no mail. That would be 'unrequested' and 'annoying'. People keep referring to the bounces being a little mistake and that it should be forgiven. That for me isn't the mistake - the mistake was the original message. You abused the database by sending out that mail. People who clearly identified they didn't want mails, got mailed - that is the mistake.

supernix said: "You can pretty much bet the losers that want to cast stones at the XOOPS team have done little to nothing to contribute financially or contributed to the code and community."

Why is it that when people make valid complaints about a open-source project there are always cries of - What have you done to help? How much have you donated? How does that have anything to do with sending unsolicitated spam to an entire user database? How does scripting modules and sending cash give you any greater right to complain when the time comes? I've donated to open-source CMS platforms and written / hacked modules - is it OK for me to complain now?

DobePhat said: "It was obvious it was simple mistake...and was the first time I ever recieved a note from xoops!"

The bounces were a mistake. However, the original Christmas email wasn't - and that was the spam (see definition, above).

So, by all means, we can drop it. There seems no point in raising issues if they're going to be 'locked'. The issue here is a major community project has spammed its userbase. I haven't received spam from PHPNuke, mPN, PN, e-Xoops or any of the other sites I'm also a member of. Maybe they resisted the urge to use their members' email addresses for an unnecessary message referring to an event that a percentage of the userbase probably don't even celebrate.

Next year, post your Christmas greeting on the website. The regular users will get the idea. And everyone else can go about their lives.

Have a pleasant festive period (and I doff my cap to the common sense and considered words of Serge)

Kenegan

p.s. Any diehard XOOPS 'yes'-people who claim this message was a "large, annoying, quantity of output" are, of course, free to have their own opinions.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

hightyde Published 12/24/2003 9:08 Updated 12/24/2003 9:09 Just popping in Joined 07/11/2003 Comments 86

All right, break it up people. Back to work!

Merry Christmas, everyone!

And thank you, XOOPS Team & community. You guys rock!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

DaBoyz Published 12/24/2003 10:00 Just popping in Joined 08/08/2002 Comments 79

Quote:

Everyone did their mea culpas, and fell on their swords for the team, the issue should be dropped. What more do you expect the Devs to do or say?

Nothing, I was happy to receive an email for Xmas ... and this little error is not important (we're all human, that's sure now

)

Thanks for all your work and Merry Christmas !!!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

ronhab Published 12/24/2003 10:01 Friend of XOOPS Joined 04/27/2003 Comments 160

If you're going to post the definition of spam, kindly use the correct one:

"MAIL ABUSE PREVENTION SYSTEM
Definition of "spam"

STANDARD:

An electronic message is "spam" IF: (1) the recipient's personal identity and context are irrelevant because the message is equally applicable to many other potential recipients; AND (2) the recipient has not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and still-revocable permission for it to be sent; AND (3) the transmission and reception of the message appears to the recipient to give a disproportionate benefit to the sender. " (emphasis mine).

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Kenegan Published 12/24/2003 10:15 Updated 12/24/2003 10:23 Just popping in Joined 09/02/2002 Comments 10

You didn't highlight (2), oddly...

(2) the recipient has not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and still-revocable permission for it to be sent;

And that's really the point here. Though, an email with XOOPS URL on it is sure getting XOOPS far more benefit from the 'publicity' than the recipient is getting from the spam. I don't care if they provide an open source software... they benefit from site visits (take that banner at the top, for example).

And I think you'll find there are enough dictionaries in the world for all of us. One definition is rarely definitive.

Kenegan

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Herko Published 12/24/2003 11:27 XOOPS is my life! Joined 02/04/2002 Comments 4238

Kenegan, I explained why I added every user to the list above. It may not have been my best choice, but that's my motivation. You can make this a holy crusade, or accept that it has happened and my apologies. I know I've learned my lesson.

The banner at the top of this site does not generate any revenue, but -as we explained in news posts before- is there to thank the sponsor who donated a dedicated server and a lot of bandwidth for us (and with us I mean the whole XOOPS community!). So, in fact, we do not benefit from site visits, we benefit from community participation.

Herko

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Montisarts Published 12/24/2003 14:57 Not too shy to talk Joined 01/26/2003 Comments 158

Quote:

I have seen it many times with others who dared to speak their minds.

Serge

If this nonsense is all your mind is pre-occupied with you must have a boring life....

Thanks XOOPS for giving all of us, even the whiners, a great CMS.

Merry X-mas to all of you and I for one expect to see X-mas greetings in my mail again next year.

Happy Xoopsing in 2004.

Greetz Frank
montisarts.com

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

CBlue Published 12/24/2003 15:59 Joined 06/28/2003 Comments 1244

Supporting Herko and the XOOPS Devs in this time of trouble is not because we are "yes men". The ones of us who support them do so because this was a honest mistake and not done to harm anyone.

Serge and Kennagan, the two of you seem hell bent on bashing Herko, the XOOPS Devs, and all of the community members here that have common sense and know the difference between a mistake and an ill intent.

Xoops is free, the advice and support you get by coming to this site is free. I'm not being paid to suppport anyone here. I'm not being paid to help anyone that I can here. No one is. We all do it because we love XOOPS and we want to help others be able to love XOOPS too.

If you have such a problem with accepting reality and being able to forgive mistakes, then at least for Herko and the rest of the community's sake, please drop this bashing of him and the devs and the rest of us.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/24/2003 19:02 Updated 12/24/2003 19:08 Joined Comments

Cblue

I am certainly not bashing Herko this is not a personal matter. I know what happened, and I know why it happened, but it should not have happened.

So everyone can have there say and opinion on it, if they wish, but as outlined above the userbase was spammed, why, reason what for, is all irrelevant.

Motivation does not justify the means.

Cheers

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

svaha Published 12/24/2003 21:10 Just can't stay away Joined 08/02/2003 Comments 896

Quote:

Beauty
Great Spirit, may I walk in Beauty!
So that I may be a part of the Greater Beauty.
Great Spirit, may I walk in Beauty.

May Beauty be to the left of me,
That I may recieve Beauty through my inner woman.
Great Spirit may I walk in Beauty.

May Beauty be to the right of me,
That I may give Beauty through my inner man.
Great Spirit, may I walk in Beauty.

May Beauty be behind me,
So that the only tracks I leave are those of Beauty.
Great Spirit, may I walk in Beauty.

May I touch myself, my Life, and all the others with Beauty.
May I walk this Blessed Beauty Way.
Great Spirit, may I walk in Beauty.

That is what I ask. This is what I will do.
I have spoken. Ho!

Aloha to you all

Svaha

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Montisarts Published 12/24/2003 22:42 Updated 12/24/2003 22:53 Not too shy to talk Joined 01/26/2003 Comments 158

Quote:

motivation does not justify the means

You are so right about that Serge....
Apply that to your own statements if you can find any means (read meaning) to your motivation but I am sure YOU can. Too bad the rest of us can't.

You also seem to have problems letting go.

Let me ask you Serge: Did you ever watch a boxing match where one couldn't stop hitting a Knock Out boxer... I bet you would love to see that...

I also bet you are making a lot of people go *sigh* with your posts. You made your point a 1000 times allready, now get over it and move on.

I've read your opinion in just about all the 20 topics about this subject, I'm not sure what is more annoying: REAL spam or people flooding their opinion all over a forum...

oh, and just in case you feel the urge to respond yet AGAIN .... DON'T, because I won't anymore. All is said and even more than that.
I'm even wondering why I am wasting my energy on this. Must be because I just can't believe some people's lack of respect. I mean critisism is something we can all deal with, but most people prefer it to be constructive in some way. And don't tell me you are being constructive. Destructive would be too much credit but it is what you are/were to the Christmas spirit on Xoops.org.

Oh, and what was this all about again? A Christmas Greeting? Ridiculous....

Respect to Herko and the XOOPS Dev Team.

Greetz Frank.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

tom Published 12/25/2003 1:30 Updated 12/25/2003 5:50 Friend of XOOPS Joined 09/21/2002 Comments 1359

I've read every single post here and in the forums regarding this matter, and to be honest I think most are a little OTT, I stand my Herko and all Xoops, Dev's in fact everyone that works towards making XOOPS better, my reason for this is because everything they have offered since I found XOOPS has been quality, there has been a few blunders and hic up's along the way, this being one of them, but WE are only human, and man enough to stand up to our mistakes.

If I was Herko I would of attempted the same to wish all good greetings, in fact hell blame me, I must of put the Idea in Herko's head at some point, by helping to try and show the community we do care and we're here for all, as a CORE TEAM MEMBER I stand to accept as much of the blame and responsibility as any one else.

Quote:

No doubt I will be flamed for being un -xoops and as I just read reminding others of trolls and such like, Some active members of this site are a tad over protective and if nothing is said good about XOOPS then we are flamed, mobbed even. I have seen it many times with others who dared to speak their minds.

I don't think people are too over protective, but what you maybe referring that you 'seen many times', are people with unconstructive criticism, although they may have a point it could at least be constructive, it's like some on one coming to your site {Edit} and posting everything they don't like about your site, would you not prefer them to approach you via E-mail or PM, or just post utter trash in the forums.

I maybe wrong here and you maybe referring to other instances, if so then please accept my apologise.

At the end of the day the XOOPS site and forums is for user support, not to 'moan' as some one mentioned, if some one doesn't like something then mail it too support@xoops.org and it will be shared with the core/Dev's and then replied to in due course, with a answer and explanation.

Any way it's Christmas morning, I must sleep other wise my partner will kill me when I get groggy opening my pressies, lol.

Take care all, God Bless, and remember if there's one thing you can give this Christmas, then please make it forgiveness.

Tim Bowers

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/25/2003 5:08 Updated 12/25/2003 6:33 Joined Comments

Quote:

I don't think people are too over protective, but what you maybe referring that you 'seen many times', are people with unconstructive criticism, although they may have a point it could at least be constructive, it's like some on one coming to your site ( MY URL )

Within my profile there is no home URL Tim Bowers, you have now just published a URL that is private, Why did you do that? The only way you could have done this is to abuse my email address, more private details abused, by a team member.

You have proven Tim Bowers that nothing personal is safe on this site, and that at the whim of Core Team Members its allright to publish private details and of course spamming the entire userbase.

What next I wonder, selling the userbase. I think people on this site should be very careful what information they give to this site as none of it is safe.

Lets not forget I am a member of this site, and I was promised certain confidentiality when I signed up, within your disclaimer. You have breached this confidentiality

I herby formally complain to the organisers and adminsitrators of this site about the conduct of their collegues and methods employed.

Who else now is going to be subjected to their private details being published on this site?? Whenever anyone in authority decides to do so.

Very bad form, this is worse than being flamed, or mobbed this is is outragious, and I for one will now complain and post on other CMS sites how one can expect to be treated on XOOPS and whoever read this should be aware of security flaws, and realise at any time they could be next.

THERE IS NO PRIVACY ON XOOPS WEBSITE THE TEAM MEMBERES WILL SEE TO THAT.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/25/2003 6:42 Updated 12/25/2003 6:45 Joined Comments

Well amazingly My URL has been edited out, good job I have the screen shot and saved file to prove things should I need to, and I am assuming that member Catzwolf was responsible for the edit, as he is the only one online at present with the authority to do so, and it was removed more or less in front of my eyes as he showed up.

The point still remains the URL was published and a breach of confidentiality took place.

Though thanks for the editing of Tim Bowers post. Perhaps not all Team members are utterly wreckless.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

YourHelp Published 12/25/2003 9:35 Friend of XOOPS Joined 06/09/2003 Comments 479

Clearly this was a mistake and hence an apology email should be fowarded to everyone. I had my ISP contact me and wonder why email traffic was so much a day i was getting 40-50 of these so call christmas greetings. I know for a fact that this is the only email's ive ever got of XOOPS so it was a mistake , people just need to get over it now the problem has been fixed herko has said it on the forum.

However i do think an official apology should be made to the loyal member's of the community, it does not take much time or effort to type up an apology, we will just have to wait and see if something like that is made. I know if i made a large mistake like that with my online websites i would apologize to my members.

In the mean time have a great christmas and a happy new year im going beach combing see you all next year..... sometime...

YH

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

YourHelp Published 12/25/2003 9:40 Friend of XOOPS Joined 06/09/2003 Comments 479

Just a point for you Serge don't bother trying to get through to the few in "charge here" ive done the same thing in the past and it truely is a waste of time..... it's christmas grab a stubby or a coke and relax

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Published 12/25/2003 10:04 Joined Comments

Well, what can I say?

I wondered when you would jump on the 'let's kick XOOPS down' when we make a mistake.

I will say this to you and anyone else who is not happy with the way we run this website. It's quite simple, we do not chain you, nor bribe you or hold you to ransom and in fact we don't even pay you to come here. You are free to leave, stay away and in fact if you would like your account deleted YourHelp, just let me know and I will be only to glad to help you on this occasion.

And, if you must know an apology email was sent to Serge as soon as we noticed what had happened. So in future, please get your fact right before you post in future.

Merry Xmas

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

YourHelp Published 12/25/2003 11:57 Friend of XOOPS Joined 06/09/2003 Comments 479

Once again you have got this incorrect... i did not say appologize to serge i said appologize to all of us. You have allway's had it in for me and no you may not deleate my account.... i did not bash XOOPS infact i stuck up for XOOPS i said that it was not intentional but an appology was needed that was my oppinion like everyone else so you get your facts right.. and merry christmas to you too and a happy new year

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

YourHelp Published 12/25/2003 11:59 Friend of XOOPS Joined 06/09/2003 Comments 479

Quote:

I wondered when you would jump on the 'let's kick XOOPS down' when we make a mistake.

Do you say this to any other member on the forum when they say there oppinion? or do you just have it in for me ... This is the first time ive been here for a few months now i simply came on to wish everyone a good christmas ... You know i have not been on the forums for awhile so you show some respect please

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

YourHelp Published 12/25/2003 12:08 Friend of XOOPS Joined 06/09/2003 Comments 479

Just back tracking over serge's post .. does this site have a privacy policy? I sure as hell hope that my personal details will not be given out i have even contribute a donation to this site so i want a little respect... next you will say my donation was not enough..

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Montisarts Published 12/25/2003 12:35 Not too shy to talk Joined 01/26/2003 Comments 158

money don't buy people respect, especially when they bring it up themselves....

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

YourHelp Published 12/25/2003 12:48 Updated 12/25/2003 12:50 Friend of XOOPS Joined 06/09/2003 Comments 479

Is this a joke ? Dr_Funkenstein if i wanted respect here i would not go about it with money where on earth did you get this idea? pffft lol im off have a good new year.

Oh Ya.. what gave you the idea i had money lmfao.....

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

kahumbu Published 12/25/2003 13:02 Documentation Writer Joined 08/23/2003 Comments 277

I guess that's a nice thought: Let's all have a good New Year!

Next year, we'll have a new version, some new documents, some new modules, maybe a few new bugs, a few new mistakes and controversies, a few new friends, and, and maybe some new critics. That's something nice about this site: there's always something new.

Thanks XOOPS!

May we all have a Happy, Stress-free New Year!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Montisarts Published 12/25/2003 13:28 Not too shy to talk Joined 01/26/2003 Comments 158

Quote:

Is this a joke ? Dr_Funkenstein if i wanted respect here i would not go about it with money where on earth did you get this idea? pffft lol im off have a good new year.

Oh Ya.. what gave you the idea i had money lmfao.....

It's not a joke, but I don't understand you bringing up money issues and respect combined here. I've never read any posts of XOOPS Team Members that were disrespectful in any way. On the other hand some users like see how far they can go as far as pushing their luck goes I think.

But this is just my opinion. Maybe I'm just a little pissed off by all this nonsense 'caused by a well meant Christmas greeting.

And no, I wasn't suggesting you had money (or not), but you seemed to suggest that you didn't get any respect here while you even made a donation to Xoops. Maybe I misunderstood your words, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

does this site have a privacy policy? I sure as hell hope that my personal details will not be given out i have even contribute a donation to this site so i want a little respect... next you will say my donation was not enough..

How's that for respect?

well, never mind, I'm just pissed off by this whole topic.

yet again: respect to the XOOPS Team and I for one hope they will put as much effort in XOOPS next year as they did in the past year.

Happy Xoopsing in 2004!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

sunsnapper Published 12/25/2003 17:38 Updated 12/25/2003 17:39 Friend of XOOPS Joined 04/10/2002 Comments 403

Serge,
I recognize that this episode has been very upsetting to some members of the community. However, I think you will find that a Google search will return your web site URL without anyone using information held in xoops.org databases.

Also, while I can understand people being upset that they received an email when they requested not to, I do not recognize that as an invasion of privacy (unless your email address was published by XOOPS admins). While it may be contrary to one's wishes to receive an email, I'm not sure how that invades one's privacy unless one's email address is shared with others.

Of course, as you have noted, you did not want to receive email from xoops.org. Further, instead of one email, you started receiving additional mail. Clearly this was an unfortunate error. As such, an apology and explanation are appropriate.

However, now that we have an apology and explanation, I'm not sure what further the XOOPS admins can do.

I'm sorry that this remains a source of frustration for members of the community. I hope we will all be able to move past it and enjoy the holidays.

Happy Holidays everyone.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

samo Published 12/26/2003 10:46 Just popping in Joined 10/14/2002 Comments 16

I started out thinking that the error causing this problem is something that could have easely prevented. Clearly the decison to send out the card to the amount of members and the way it was sent was made quite fast. The error could have bee prevented. But the only way to learn these kind of things is experience. And the XOOPS team have more experience now. Everyone already appologized, and more important will think about the effects before starting a new action.
Another hint might be to learn from other people's experiences before starting a new action (maybe by extentively reading manuals or user experience fora), and realize that not all software is 'just use it' based.
I believe the lesson was learned, I believe that other people who were angry in tbe beginning think alike.
I bless the XOOPS development team (for as far as it counts)

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

gstarrett Published 12/30/2003 17:35 Friend of XOOPS Joined 03/12/2002 Comments 174

Frankly I don't understand why people are so huffy about this. I get a LOT more email every day trying to sell me things to "enhance" my privates than the total number of messages I got from this mistake... It was a simple mistake, that's all. I don't know why people feel the need to be petty and try to act all high and mighty. They are probably just taking out their overall frustrations with SPAM in general on anyone who doesn't use a falsified return address because it's easy.

The XOOPS team has done some FANTASTIC things this year. My hat is off to them, thanks for everything and keep up the excellent work. You can email me with good news anytime!

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Kenegan Published 01/07/2004 9:57 Just popping in Joined 09/02/2002 Comments 10

I know... it's a week later and this should lie. However, I caught this last message and had to reaffirm the 'other' position here. My bone of contention was not with the 'simple mistake', but with the irresponsible use of the user database. I run communities too, and I wouldn't dream of ignoring my members right not to receive mail from me - not even email that might wish them a happy Christmas, happy Birthday or whatever. They wouldn't have ticked the box if they didn't mean it - those users don't want you in their Inbox. The 'simple mistake' highlighted the action that had been taken - using the XOOPS user database without attention to personal choices to fire off a mailing list message. That was the 'mistake' - and I'm certain that the XOOPS team (at least I hope) will have learned from it.

Re: Xmas@xoops.org email problem

Panos Published 01/07/2004 11:19 Friend of XOOPS Joined 03/20/2003 Comments 87

Kenegan,

Indeed that hickup was caused due to a misconfiguration somewhere. I don't think that there is a point in bringing it up. I do agree with you however. This situation was very uncomfortable for me as well. At one point, I was forced to apply filters manually, because the situation was unbearable.

That said though, let us put this in the past. Mistakes are human and may happen at any time and by anyone.

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