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  4.  / Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??
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1
zaphmann
Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 18:57

  • zaphmann

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 30

  • Since: 2007/5/22


Hello,

I am concerned about the vitality of XOOPS and the relationship to Themes - last night I got locked out of XOOPS entirely just trying a simple theme. (see below to see how I dealt with it).

I also notice that there are VERY few themes after 2005, unlike say WordPress (which is not a CMS, which is why I'm here).

Three important questions:
1. Why aren't newcomers made aware that themes can knacker the whole system? (No mention in documentation)
2. With all Xoops' thorough security (via Protector etc.) how come a simple theme change can be so catastophic!?
3. What is the reason for so few (2006-7) themes anywhere? IS it because in XOOPS one should avoid Themes??

So back to last night - after a protracted install of 6 days I finally got to try some themes which I found on the web. The second theme threw me out of XOOPS and gave me a blank screen - no way in at all. I followed the suggestions at this post Quote:
https://xoops.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=58572&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=20

and the XOOPS default theme re-appeared but without any admin access. Templates-c regenerated two files with the offending theme's identifier in it.

As I'm just getting started I reinstalled the whole system without any themes but the default, but it didn't work - the memory of the theme remained in the database.

So I have reinstalled from scratch, I have the Install wizard ready to go and I intend to create a new database prefix.

BUT - I'm worried now, will the whole thing collapse as soon as I try to make my theme interesting?? Should I stick with 'morphogenesis'? Some may not think that
Quote:
playing with themes can create these problems.
If you really want to change your theme (I like blogstyle), I think you'll do better to create a new one, based on 'morphogenesis' skeleton. (see Kris_fr works/adaptations about this).


But it's a hell of a coincidence if it wasn't the theme that caused it. The theme was Jul06nA36GIdg_res - I believe it was from Omniworks and is #07
2
McDonald
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 19:19

  • McDonald

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1072

  • Since: 2005/8/15


Where (url) did you get the theme 'Jul06nA36GIdg_res' from?
Google couldn't find it.

Can you also give some information about XOOPS version, etc.?
3
preachur
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 19:36

  • preachur

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 525

  • Since: 2006/2/4 4


I have been using XOOPS for a few years now. I have literally tried hundreds and hundreds of themes from a variety of sources, and I have never had a problem like the one you describe. Where did you get that theme? What version of XOOPS are you using?

I would love to kill one of my test sites with it and see first-hand exactly what it does. Please post a link to that download.

The worst problem I have ever seen with any theme is blocks not displaying, and once or twice a blank screen, but you just switch it back in administration...

The way XOOPS themes work, there really is no way that a theme can affect the database the way you describe unless there was more to the installation (I.E.- An install script that runs.) than just uploading it and choosing it in admin. Besides, just because you get a blank on the front side, the administration theme is independent of the rest of the site, and you can go right back into administration and change the front back to something else.

More information is needed here. Did you choose the new theme as the Administration theme instead of using it for your Default theme? Several things that you are saying don't add up.

Xoops and XOOPS themes are very easy to customize. I have often customized commercial templates like Template Monster templates, and converted them to XOOPS themes.

Also, I can find no Omniwork or Omniworks themes anywhere on the web for Xoops. URL please.
Magick can never be restrained, but when freely given is thrice regained!
4
tom
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 19:51

  • tom

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1359

  • Since: 2002/9/21


Quote:
1. Why aren't newcomers made aware that themes can knacker the whole system? (No mention in documentation)


It doesn't 'knacker' the system, and new themes and modules for that shouldn't be tested on production websites, you should have a test website set up, to avoid these problems taking down a production website.

Quote:
2. With all Xoops' thorough security (via Protector etc.) how come a simple theme change can be so catastophic!?


It's not 'catastrophic', you can always make the changes via MySQL:

table_config --> theme_set and change it in there I believe.

Quote:
3. What is the reason for so few (2006-7) themes anywhere? IS it because in XOOPS one should avoid Themes??


I've seen loads of themes, not all announced here some on an individuals site, you also buy theme from such sites as xoopsdesign.com

Themes are made by the community and as such, you too can become involved and make your own themes for release.

I look forward to seeing your contributions.

Quote:
and the XOOPS default theme re-appeared but without any admin access. Templates-c regenerated two files with the offending theme's identifier in it.


Which XOOPS version are you using, 2.0.16 doesn't allow admin themes by default, unless you have a hacked version.

If your running the 2.2 series have your chosen an admin theme or for XOOPS to use the same theme as the front end?

Themes don't generally effect the back-end in 2.0.16, or at least never have for me.

Quote:
As I'm just getting started I reinstalled the whole system without any themes but the default, but it didn't work - the memory of the theme remained in the database.


If this is a fresh install then there should be no remainder from your previous attempt, unless perhaps you didn't clear the following folders:

Cache
templates_c

Now not every theme that someone of the community releases necessarily conforms to w3 standards, some of themes you come across may even be for older versions that are not compliant with the version of XOOPS your using.

As mentioned before if you want to test themes and you don't want to take a risk of the theme not being compatible, then make a test site, and go mad their, then at least you know that no damage will be caused to your live website.

Hope this maybe of some help.
Kind Regards.
Tom

http://bassmanthemes.com
http://www.xoopslance.com
5
BroHam
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 20:07

  • BroHam

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 100

  • Since: 2007/3/31


Quote:
3. What is the reason for so few (2006-7) themes anywhere? IS it because in XOOPS one should avoid Themes??

I think there are lots of newer themes to be found, and several credible sources making them. The only question is what kind of license they are using, whether we can use them however we want or if commercial use is prohibited.

Quote:
The second theme threw me out of XOOPS and gave me a blank screen - no way in at all.

That doesn't make any sense, unless the theme.html file was either not present or did not have the proper permissions set.

When you try your new theme, to be safe, you can make the theme selectable in the "Change Themes" block and avoid making it your default theme until you are sure you like it.
Subsequently, you should always have access to your admin side regardless of the theme you are running.http://www.yourURL.com/admin.php should take you there if you can't get there the normal way.

Another reason for a blank screen could be related to protector and your ip being registered as a bad ip, in which case (I believe) you can go to /yourTRUSTPATHdirectory/modules/protector/configs/ and delete whatever is in the present file. I think this happens depending on settings and how many times you click on a link (like "Home") within the set period of time.

That's all I got. I'll be hoping to hear more details about this theme, too, if it really had anything to do with the trouble you ran into.

Good luck...
I don't know.
6
tom
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 20:17

  • tom

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1359

  • Since: 2002/9/21


Hi Broham,

Quote:
I think there are lots of newer themes to be found, and several credible sources making them. The only question is what kind of license they are using, whether we can use them however we want or if commercial use is prohibited.


If it's developed for xoops, relies on XOOPS to work, and released I believe the theme would be GPL as inherits that licence of the framework it requires to work, however the images can be under any licence for example CC.

To avoid legal issues with the images, you could still use a released theme, and simply change the image to a custom one you've done, or that is royalty free.

I'm not sure how the law would work though if for example the theme mimicked a site like lycos.com or yahoo.com.

Quote:
When you try your new theme, to be safe, you can make the theme selectable in the "Change Themes" block and avoid making it your default theme until you are sure you like it.


A very good point if you don't have the time nor resources for a demo site.

As Broham mentions it could be caused by the protector module, and in addition it also maybe a conflict of modules, and not necessarily a theme issue.
Kind Regards.
Tom

http://bassmanthemes.com
http://www.xoopslance.com
7
zaphmann
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/28 22:30

  • zaphmann

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 30

  • Since: 2007/5/22


I posted a detailed response to this over an hour ago... it took me about that long to complie... but it hasn't appeared. How long should one wait for posts to appear? This, effectively is a test to see if I have to redo it all.

ie, if this posts then the other post is in the ether.

ARGGH - another issue - My posts don't get in - I get a message saying Thank you for your post: Already submitted. (Perhaps it's a timeout on login??)

Luckily this time I SAVED my post in text file (I'm editing this one) - here it is:

OK #OOPS# it. I post a lengthy detailed response to all the replies and it doesn't post. If my template crash is >1/1000 and my prior XoopsInfo/Protector problems during install were similar then my post evapourates I should probably be placing a bet on something...

But here goes another hour:

First up, thank-you all for such a vigourous response. I am encouraged enough to persist with XOOPS and trust that I have just had bad fortune so far. To clarify some points in response:

1. The theme was from www.omnetwork.net and called OM7, you have to put up with registeriung and lots of pop-ups to get it. It downloads with two folders: om7 and res, both of which had theme.html files with correct permissions at my site (755). I have the files and can email tem to anyone who wants them.

2. I couldn't set up a local test site because XAMPP only supports Intel Macs (not PPC Macs) since it switched from v5 to v6. I have an idea though to create a 'QA' site at my host by having a mirror file structure under another title which I switch-out under the root for testing changes. My 'QA' site would have a different database prefix to keep it from interfering - do you think this can work?

3. I don't know how to follow this suggestion: Quote:
When you try your new theme, to be safe, you can make the theme selectable in the "Change Themes" block and avoid making it your default theme until you are sure you like it.
- any instructions on how to do this anywhere?

4. Quote:
Subsequently, you should always have access to your admin side regardless of the theme you are running.http://www.yourURL.com/admin.php should take you there if you can't get there the normal way.
I tried that after the blank screen and got a 'you are not authorised message that redirected me to a blank screen. all other 'back-end attempts yielded either a blank screen or a redirect... UNTIL I changed the [offending theme name] to [dummyname], and the 'default' theme name to [offending theme name], cleared templates_c (except index file) and retried. THEN I got the opening XOOPS page BUT only with Header and footer - no side menu to access Admin etc. And in templates_c two new files with [offending theme name] in the title appeared.

5. My choice of words in the first post may have been a bit emotive, but the other instance I found in support (see my first post) was a longstanding production site that similarly blanked out after a theme change. I was concerned about putting 1000s of hours into building a site which could crash on a theme change. From your comments it seems this is either exceptional, or it is module related (how is anyone's guess) but rarely happens.

6. FYI I downloaded vanilla 2.0.16, with protector and a couple of mods only. My host is on the very latest apache, MySQL etc. (Stephouse.net)

7. Quote:
Did you choose the new theme as the Administration theme instead of using it for your Default theme?

Not that I know of, I just selected a new default theme in te Admin>Preferences>General area --- BUT I also highlighted (selected) all eight themes I had on site in the USer theme selection area (which is a couple below Default I think (I can't get there now).

In summary. My faith in the vitality is restored, I am VERY appreciative of the responses and, though I still think it's strange that few 2006/2007 themes come up in searches, I'll stick to safe ones and trust I don't hit any more wierdness. I also hope to contribute back somehow down the line.

Any comments on the above ideas are most welcome on the thread or direct to me.

Best
Zaph
8
BroHam
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/29 0:12

  • BroHam

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 100

  • Since: 2007/3/31


Quote:
I don't know how to follow this suggestion: Quote:
When you try your new theme, to be safe, you can make the theme selectable in the "Change Themes" block and avoid making it your default theme until you are sure you like it.
- any instructions on how to do this anywhere?

Sure. System Admin Preferences>General Preferences (same place you change the default theme). Under Default theme, you'll see "Check templates for modifications ?" (should check YES while testing) and under that you'll see "Selectable themes." You'll be able to select multiple themes you want to be able to view on the front end. You can choose any or all of the themes you have uploaded to your themes folder.

Next, you go to your admin for Blocks, and make the "Change Theme?" block visible and set the page(s) you want it on. To ensure users or anonymous viewers do not see the block while you are testing, change the permissions in your Groups so only webmasters have access to the block.

That should do it. As you experiment with themes or work on them, you'll want to have "Check templates for modifications ?" on, and turn it back off after you are finished testing. Also, sometimes, you'll have to clear all files except the index.html in your templates_c along with clearing your browser's cache. Even with my "check templates" setting set to YES, I have had instances when changes were not revealed until I cleared those things too. I'll also mention that you might want to "refresh view" when using an ftp app like Filezilla to be sure it is displaying everything in templates_c.

Quote:
Not that I know of, I just selected a new default theme in te Admin>Preferences>General area --- BUT I also highlighted (selected) all eight themes I had on site in the USer theme selection area (which is a couple below Default I think (I can't get there now).

Oh, okay, I see after rereading that you are familiar with this, so you just need to make the correct block visible and set permissions for who may see it(you).
I don't know.
9
tom
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/5/29 0:35

  • tom

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1359

  • Since: 2002/9/21


Quote:
ARGGH - another issue - My posts don't get in - I get a message saying Thank you for your post: Already submitted. (Perhaps it's a timeout on login??)


I've never had this on my site, but I do get this occasionally on xoops.org, like you had.

I tend to select all and copy, just in case I have to paste it back in and post again.

Sometimes I get logged out, but this is the lengthy posts, as my session expires.

Quote:
1. The theme was from www.omnetwork.net and called OM7, you have to put up with registeriung and lots of pop-ups to get it. It downloads with two folders: om7 and res, both of which had theme.html files with correct permissions at my site (755). I have the files and can email tem to anyone who wants them.


I did find this after my last post and then got distracted with other things and forgot to post the address.

These guys released a fair few themes a short while ago, I tested one of them and had problems myself, because at the time I was too busy to look into it, I never bothered with their themes again. Thats not to say there bad themes, just that I didn't have the time to look further.

The user on XOOPS is called hardyvoje, and his X profile can be found here:

hardyvoje - Click Here

In the admin ---> general settings, etc.

You have default theme, and selectable theme.

In your blocks admin you can choose a block which allows users to change the theme from the back end, now when they do these are not permanent theme changes for the whole system, only for that user.

Quote:
I tried that after the blank screen and got a 'you are not authorised message that redirected me to a blank screen. all other 'back-end attempts yielded either a blank screen or a redirect... UNTIL I changed the [offending theme name] to [dummyname], and the 'default' theme name to [offending theme name], cleared templates_c (except index file) and retried. THEN I got the opening XOOPS page BUT only with Header and footer - no side menu to access Admin etc. And in templates_c two new files with [offending theme name] in the title appeared.


If you've done it this way, and it worked, you can type the urlhttp://www.yoursite/user.php and then log in from there.

If you still have no side menus, type inhttp://www.yoursite/admin.php

Chances are the you changed the theme folder name, but the block code in the html files have the default path hard coded:

<{include file="folder-name/theme_blockleft.html"}>

This code will be different if they use the new XOOPS template code, ie $xoBlocks

Quote:
5. My choice of words in the first post may have been a bit emotive, but the other instance I found in support (see my first post) was a longstanding production site that similarly blanked out after a theme change. I was concerned about putting 1000s of hours into building a site which could crash on a theme change. From your comments it seems this is either exceptional, or it is module related (how is anyone's guess) but rarely happens.


I've been running many, many XOOPS sites for years, well since the project practically started, I was one of the first nuke converts, and it's very rare I've had a problem, when I have it's been something I've done, and then I back track and fix what I broke.

I have had problems with modules conflicting, sometimes it's something simply like similar instances, which the developer may not of seen in another module. Sometimes a little more complicated, but then again you get this in all CMS's even the commercial ones.

If I'm totally stumped I ask the good people here in the community and most of the time I'll get a reply that helps and works.

I think you noticed the amount of people trying to help in this thread, and that's one thing I love about the XOOPS community, most people want to help others, as they've been there, and pulled their hair out too. lol

Quote:
Did you choose the new theme as the Administration theme instead of using it for your Default theme?


If you using 2.0.16 then this shouldn't effect you, I believe that option is only in 2.2.3 - 2.2.5 at the moment.

Hope this has been of some help.
Kind Regards.
Tom

http://bassmanthemes.com
http://www.xoopslance.com
10
ibanez
Re: Theme kills Xoops - Should Themes be avoided??

  • 2007/6/9 22:09

  • ibanez

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 33

  • Since: 2003/1/28


Ive gone through a lot of the themes on this site, and most of them just give me a white screen. Luckily I always keep a browser open in the Admin area so I can change to a theme I know works.

I used to use these themes a few years back when I used Xoops, now though it seems support for these themes has vanished as new versions come out.

As for it not supporting certain modules, I have deactivated all but the system, and still all I get is white screens.

Xoops has got old since I first started using it back when RC2 was in beta. Nothing has rally changed, old bugs have been ironed out an new ones introduced.

So why do I still use it? Well I know its quirkes. Like my old car, it rattles along but I know when its likely to break down so I just pull over and let it cool down, or just stay in. I can afford a new one, but I've had this car since new. Get the picture. I don't hate it, it just pisses me off every now and then when I need to use it.
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