ricland

I found that post very amusing...

I am a young 54, may start a XOOPS support site for the over 50's?..

If I can help out, post to my test site if you wish, and we will get you up and running gradually. Don't give up. The diffs are just files showing differences between files form previous versions. Helpful only if you had an older install.

http://www.macambridge.com

Yeah, that macambridge.com is more like it. Here's my url:
http://www.ericlanders.com

How do I get it looking like yours?

Hmm, I might stick around after all. Keep your fingers crossed , everybody.

You have installed xoops, well done!

Be nice to Cblue she is a great person..

I am using the x2t theme. It will be already available in your install. Just go to system admin/preferences/general settings and choose x2t as your default "theme" (not "Template" that is something else)

Second stage: Template for x2t

To have the x2t theme looking right, you need to upload a special template file which is in your extras folder with a "tar" extension. To do this you need to go to your XOOPS admin, then system admin/templates/ and upload this "tar" file in your extras folder through the system admin/templates browse box near the bottom. You can name this anything you wish.

You then go to system admin/preferences/general settings and choose this new Template as your default (not theme)

This might be greek to you, so when you get the first stage done, I will lead you through this part again.

I have modified my x2t theme, but I will make it available for download if you wish, sorry I am off to bed, so I will catch up later, or we can finish this at my site or whatever..

A Few late-night random hopefully fruitful thoughts, what can we learn here?

It would also be constructive to look at ways to improve users usability around Xoops, or our own websites. Mr Ricland is frustrated; perhaps we, or whoever needs to, should embark on a study on some XOOPS usability research. Many webmasters build a web site around what they wish to promote--or think is important, rather than around the principle reasons users are coming to the site. How easy is it for users to find the information and resources they need and want quickly. The usability focus should include why does the website exist, why will users come, what do they want and need, and is the website delivering these requirements as efficiently as possible.

Websites also need a good solid category and drill down structure. XOOPS is after all a content management system, and providing a living example of an efficient categorized content management system would go a long way to promoting the amazing ability of xoops. (I am working on such a site just now for myself)

Those of us who have been around the block a while might assume that finding this information should be obvious, but in fact, it is not for a new user? A friend of mine who is an experienced Webmaster, and builds HTML sites, came to the XOOPS website and his first impression was that thought they were all "Talking Greek". He said, "Heavens, a lot of people are having awful problems with bugs and blank pages at xoops. And what’s this CHMOD 666 thing? Sounds damn sinister to me!”

So, perhaps having a user forum "block" on the first introductory page makes new users think that XOOPS is second-rate, full of bugs, unstable, and ridden with problems. Developers know that bugs are a way of life, but many new users might not be up to speed on this. Bugs in open-source are open, closed code is closed, so we don’t see the propriety code bug list. A usability study for new users will improve the XOOPS ranking and cut down on many multiple posts. Lets face it, the documentation is not in place, and so this post has a valid point. I know it is in the pipeline, but nothing can be done about that until the official document writer’s finish their work. Mute point. (I would do some myself, but XOOPS needs own official website stuff. I am sure the XOOPS team will get there in time, as Cblue said, patience is a virtue!

Could this post be expressing some frustrations of ghost visitors not known about? We might assume that users have more knowledge about basic things. We could include extra tutorials about FTP, CHMOD, and file structures, or links to other good tutorials? This would increase the newish market that is quickly growing from non-geeks or non-linux users. Users from microsoftish environments now want to build database driven interactive community websites like Xoops, and need some more basic assistance to really make it an "out-of-the-box” experience for them. I doubt if they are initially aware of the fantastic powerful backend admin structure XOOPS has, and they are not aware that it is probably the easiest to use CMS available today. If new users get the stage of actually installing Xoops, well, after that, that’s it really--they will be hooked, and spoiled for anything else. This would also reduce the possibility of hidden users giving up through lack of the knowledge that many of us might assume users have.

The forums indicate that this increasing market is growing. No longer just ex-nuker’s and geeks etc, but genuine individuals needing help. Providing this essential usability, and extra help tools will be a must; or the forums will constantly be full of users needing this information and guidance.
To me a sign of usability success is not necessarily busy forums, but fewer repeated questions related to installs and other information that the website should easily provide. As an ex IT Trainer, I knew I was doing a good job if the helpdesk was quiet after a training session.

We can all do our bit and contribute some documentation and other efforts, and allow developers to get on with what they do best, which is coding and developing.

New users are after all--the future of Xoops!

Some good thoughts there.

To be honest, I also find documentation - and the scattered finding of some themes, modules etc a bit of a pain.

However, I am glad that this seems gradually being sorted... and the apparent new modules and themes sites will be welcomed by me straight away :)

Perhaps as Jack said - some people may be scared off in the first instant with some apparent problems (which mainly are simple fixes) - and perhaps - as someone else said in another post (I'm sorry I can't remember who...!) that perhaps a step by step guide to simple problem solving should be a must.....

Just my tuppence... and no criticisms intended!

david

Yes i have to agree that finding the information you want quickly isn't exactly top of the list if you are a newcomer here that is. I am no website wizard but i have been trying out my designs on people who have some computer using experience. It has shocked me how intolerant and impatient they are. If they don't see something within just a few seconds they get ****** off. They are even worse late at night after a few drinks hehe. Practically worn me out trying to get a look that satisfies all. I am not going to criticise this site or any other cos i know how hard it is to design one. I do know though that you have to cater for the lowest denominator (daftest). I should think a site like this that caters for people that are new to portals etc needs the basics blatently staring people in the face as soon as they come on the site. It seemed very hard for me to find even the installation info i needed which was a bit odd hehe.

Great product though all the same.

Bulls
PS: Gotta running club? Forum devoted to the sport free.
Sites-4u

Having tried at least six other cms, I'm probaby more experienced than the average newbie. Also, I know html and css. As I say, I had no trouble installing the app -- why these guys keep saying I can't follow the instructions in the install guide, is beyond. My question had to do with what to do after. I also figured out how to move blocks around, no big deal either. Finally, when I'm ready to start changing things, I know the difference between a theme and a template.

But how was I supposed to know about the diff files? Also, since reading your post, I now know that the third folder in the zoops folder is a theme. But how was I supposed to know this? Nothing in the instructions said anything about it.

And as to themes, it's an exercise in futility. All these third party people have horrible things they make you do before you get to download one of their themes. I spent 30 minutes fooling around on that Germain guy's site to get his css theme. Someone said I have to register in his forum to get it. I registered in his form, then spent another 20 minutes looking for a link. No link.

Another thing I hate is these people who show you thumbnails of themes -- really poor thumbnails of themes -- and expect you to decide whether you want to download it based on that.

But the main problem here is these geniuses have not applied their genius to teaching people how to use this product. As you point out, they have no tutorials, then when someone like myself comes along and complains, they call him "stupid."

It's an open-source project. That means the developers contribute their time and effort.

If you don't understand something, such as what the "diff" files are, all you have to do is ask.

Anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute needed documentation.

Quote:


That, my friend, is geek-speak. It's also defensive. And it also misses the point. Let me give you an example of how much documentation is missing here. I had successively intalled xoops, but couldn't figure out what to do next. I went to the documentation and there was nothing there telling me what to do next. I came to the forum and asked what to do next, and some guy called me stupid. Other guys made fun of the fact that I didn't have basic skills. Somebody told me to do a search in the archives -- for what? If you don't know what you're looking for, how can you do a search?

But the solution was so simple. All I needed to do was install the modules I wanted. Well, I finally figured that out on my own -- after leaving this forum with no answer!

Now I see what's going on with xoops. Most cms startup with a basic set of modules already installed. XOOPS doesn't -- and worse: nowhere does it tell you this.

Now that, my friend, is insane. And the reason it's insane is because you're losing users because of it. I know, because I left a year ago, because of it. Check my posting history, you'll see a one year gap.

And I call it insane, because one line in the intall or users guide -- "You must install the modules you want" would have eliminated that.

So, let's be crystal clear about the problem: XOOPS documentation -- not stupid or lazy new users.

Here's another example: How do you install a theme? I know, the answer is in the archives, right? Well, the answer becongs in the "users manual." That's what user manuals are for.

They're called "how-tos" and "tutorials," and believe it or not, they serve a very important purpose: they help people lean how to use the application in a simple and organized way.

Although I don’t like ricland attitude, I must say that at some times he does have a point. After install you are in fact left without any documentation and you’ll just have to figure everything out yourself. I can understand how this might be difficult for a reasonably large number of (potential) users. I know the documentation team is working hard on getting everything done as quickly as their time permits them, but at this moment many new users might be scared away by this. What about showing a little popup after install with a few lines that tell a user what he/she can do next. Example: to install a module go here… for basic settings go here, etc.

I do have to say that I actually chose XOOPS because I thought that everything was working more intuitive then other CMS. After trying others finding where to install the modules in XOOPS was easy, all I needed to do was go to system/modules. I read some thread somewhere about an installer hack which should give you the option to install modules during the main install of Xoops. This would be a great leap forward in improving the already best CMS installer around.

As for some other comments made by ricland, If you are entirely new to the OS community and CMS’s, it’s hard to get started without documentation, even with a system as good as Xoops. Fist step is finding the main download. Ok, I think it’s pretty obvious, click on the big red letters saying XOOPS 2.0.6, but it seems not everybody sees it that way. I would suggest adding a block to be displayed above the main download section with a link to the main XOOPS files. Just to take a little irritation away.

Last thing: JackJ and Cbleu, Although I’m becoming more and more OS minded, I would never be able to stay so calm and peaceful with a person who’s attitude towards XOOPS and it’s community is like ricland’s. The fact that you are helpful like this (and not only you) makes this community Xoops’ best asset.