Hello everyone,
A couple of days ago I posted a question asking about Xoopsforge documentation. As of yet, I have not recieved any response and I am curious. What's the BIG SECRET with Xoopsforge documentation? Is there an ugly secret, that as a newbie here, I am unaware of or is that others simply do not know the answer? If it is the first case, please ANYONE, forget the community code of silence crap that surrounds SO MANY communities when a newbie asks a SIMPLE question and enlighten me. Documentation is pretty standard stuff for a well developed system like Xoops, particularly when a company like Novell uses the platform to create the module I am seeking info on making it compatible with Xoops2 and then re-releases back to the XOOPS community. If it is the second case, then WE have a problem. Please ANYONE, let me know that I am not alone with this question and we can at least go from there. Problems do not simply go away if we play dumb and ignore them.

Thanks,
Larry

Hello Larry and welcome to XOOPS forums

You raise an important question about documentation and one that many of us are asking and waiting for answers to. No there is no conspiracy or secret agendas. It's simply that XOOPS user documentation has taken the route of many open source projects and that is somewhere behind the developmental work. XOOPS is an ongoing project with fresh initiatives and source code appearing on a regular basis, therfore any documentation would soon be superceded. The development team have recognised this and commissioned a documentation project to provide useful and reliable material for users and developers alike. This is happening right now and some of that material is due for imminant release. We do have a challenge: we could have released documents some time ago, but they would have been poorly presented and unreliable. This is no use to the community and we believe that documentation should reflect the quality of the XOOPS product.

We need to remember that this is all voluntary work from every section of the XOOPS project. The key is in exercising some tolerance and patience. Even better, add your expertise and help! This is our project together, collectively we give the life blood of success.

Larry, may I suggest you make specific request regarding any information you need, because there's no 400 page manual coming your way this week ...

All the best with your XOOPS project

Regards, Richard

Dear Richard(carnuke),
I very much appreciate your response. The veil of ignorance on my part has a least been lifted a little. I realize XOOPS has growing pains, however, I feel that it is important for the project as a whole to AT THE VERY LEAST have some documentation on the modules that it itself uses. For me, the XOOPS installation was EASY with NO problems whatsoever. My problem, in particular, is with Xoopsforge and it's lack of documentation. I can understand individual module developers lacking the time to make documentation, but xoopsforge is a BIG project backed by many developers from Novell(a big company itself)that showcases Xoops. This, above all, should be well documented so everyone can see what great software it is.

I understand patience is required and those who develop XOOPS do so of their own free will without being paid for it...at least in traditional form. NOONE is more disgusted by bug-filled, illogically made proprietary crapware than I. I have been burned by it more than once and the financial pain still aches in my memory. A platform such as XOOPS can be used for many things on a large scale...limited, in many respects, by hardware only. When this happens crapware vendors cannot produce competing crapware anymore and everyone wins. However, the users need to know how to use it. I am very happy to hear that documentation is coming because XOOPS deserves it.

Thanks,
Larry

Hi Larry, as a further thought ... try posting on Xoopsforge directly. (maybe you have) Well, it's over to them!

In open source projects documentation is always the weak point. Usually the standard response to a question like this is "do it yourself". XOOPS though has official documentation writers. It is very good to hear that the official manual will arrive quite soon.

Another possible hindrance to freely available documentation in many open source projects is the fact that many web developers make a living from providing customised solutions using open source engines like Xoops. So having out of the box step-by-step instruction manuals available to the general public would in some instances take away this source of income. I learned XOOPS myself by practice and trial and error, and still learning

Xoops is seeking to attract web developers, but having step-by-step dummy guides available for all, could probably cause some of them to use other solutions, as there client market will decline. Developers have to make a living somehow. In open source the main "source" of making a living is "knowledge". But happily XOOPS are not worried about this, and freely going to provide this documentation for everyone, which is great news

?

I don't think that many people can make a living off doing step-by-step work for their customers.

Having good documentation is not a hindrance to making money on XOOPS, on the contrary, you could get customers with much higher needs, who wouldn't have gone to XOOPS if it hadn't been so easy to setup in the first place (I am talking as if there were good documentation on XOOPS - which there will be)

There would still be a need for professional developers to do customizations, but on a higher level than just moving a link around or similar. Also, some people want the responsibility placed elsewhere or cannot take the time to learn XOOPS well enough (by reading the documentation) to do it themselves, so they hire someone else to do it.

When that is said and done, I feel that the responsibility of (getting someone to do the) documenting (of their) modules lies with the module developer. However, sometimes he or she just makes a fast conversion of a script, or whips up something fast that documentation is uninteresting - and sometimes the module development is so big a task that there is not enough time for documentation.

And just to defend Predator (who I believe is the one, who has made the XoopsForge module) if he was to document all the modules he has made, he would have a full-time job for a while

Quote:

The XoopsForge themself is made by Arjen van Efferen, he start as the first with Porting the SF Software to XOOPS ( XOOPS 1.3.X ) .

Since 2002 there is nothing more happens on the Starting Projectpage >here< so I ported the XoopsForge to XOOPS 2.0 and called it now myXoopsForge, during the further development, the myXoopsForge becomes more and more an "real" Xoopsmodule, also uploadabilitity, CVS browsing etc. stable enough for Novell to take this one as base for there converting to XOOPS 2.0 with Novell Forge and they own further development, also some Module become a standalone and more expanded Version like the first standalone xfsnippet 1.1.

The myXoopsForge has more features now as the "old" XoopsForge one.

If your are asking for XoopsForge Documentation, you have to go to the Projectpage above.

The myXoopsForge themself has a documentation build in, see on http://dev.xoops.org there the Modules works in a productive situation so what are you looking for?

Just go in the folder help at the Novell Forge Module or the myXoopsForge there are several helpfiles. Where it is ?

here

The Final status of the myXoopsForge and Novell Forge is not reach yet, so the developing goes on also the expanding of helpfiles.

Http://dev.xoops.org - not xoops2.org

Upps edited