Hi guys I really hate to complain however I am really beginning to get frustrated with using xoops; Each and every time there is an updated xoops version there seems to be problems with some of the mods.

Far too much of my time is being wasted on (1) coming to the xoops forum searching for solutions...again, (2) spending hours and days googling in hopes of finding solutions to xoops errors becasue no reasonable solution was found on the xoops forum, (3) trying to find replacement modules becasue clearly no one is planning on updating the module for whatever reason, (4) then, trying to find the updated version of the replacement modules, (4) then, I have to try and figure out how to import all my old data into the new mod or once more I have to start all over!

For every single update you have issued I have had problems. I then get to your site and I see all the member postings from those facing the same dilemma. Yes most of the time support is posted to these problems however do you really think it is fair that we should through this for every single update!?!?!

You now have a new update and I am terrified to install it because I already know I will have to go through all of the above mentioned...again! Please do something to correct this issue.

Respectfully
Terry

Well Terry, welcome to Xoops. I am just a user just as you but you will find most people will likely suggest the same thing.

Similar to when a new computer operating system comes out you don't want to jump right on it. It takes a little while for other things to catch up.

If you have an established system and everything works fine then there are only a couple good reasons to upgrade. If for some reason your site isn't going to work anymore or you want to make use of something the newer version brings to the table then look into it. But you don't HAVE to upgrade otherwise.

Otherwise you SHOULD have a test server at home or elsewhere that you can put up the new version and make sure everything works with it that you want to use.

The current version is 2.4.5 and 2.5 is in alpha test with 3.0 hopefully here in 6 months. If you are using 2.3.3 or even 2.0.18 and what you have works there isn't much or a reason to upgrade. Although if your server is running PHP 5.x you may be forced to upgrade because of that if you are running anything less then 2.4.5.

Alot of cases with new modules coming out to replace older ones they have an upgrade script or some way of importing the data from other modules. But you should ALWAYS do this on a test server before you do it on your data. And when you DO work on your sites data make sure you have EVERYTHING backed up before hand.

As to older modules not working anymore that is the whole idea of the "blue move". Which means that once they have been "moved to blue" they should work with 2.4.5 and likely with 2.5 and hopefully 3.0 without much issue. There are programmers working on updating the modules. Alot of the older modules were written years ago and are breaking because they used bad coding, stuff that isn't used anymore or just plain incompatible with the newer stuff.

But like I said, don't fear, there are people working on them. In the mean time just stay where you are unless you can test the newer stuff on another server and make sure it works before you move over.

Out of curiosity, which versions of Xoops and which modules are you referring to?

You are asking me what version as if I am here reporting a module problem; take a look at the postings received on this site after each and every update; I am referring to all versions including the present 2.4.5.

redheadedrod it is my understanding that when a software is updated you are supposed to do the update as they often address security issues that are important to correct.

It is not the responsibility of ANY user to do the kind of testing that you are recommend; I think that is absurd! It is the responsibility of xoops to ensure that the new version works with the modules they use on their OWN site as well as the modules they RECOMMEND, BEFORE releasing it publicly.

Why do they have mods that are no longer being updated and/or that are not compatible in THEIR download section. Does it not make sense to remove them and only have available the mods that do work and that they will be maintaining?!?!

The only testing we users should be doing is checking to see if a module we found ELSEWHERE (1) conflicts with xoops, (2) conflicts with our other xoops recommended modules, (3) does it do what I want, is it user friendly etc.

I could swallow this is this was something new but the FACT is, this has been happening since I began using xoops; 2008/1/17. I use other open source software and I can tell you, they are a joy!

As far as this being "Similar to when a new computer operating system comes out you don't want to jump right on it. It takes a little while for other things to catch up."

That is why you have Microsoft and then, you have Apple; an apple a day keeps the doctor away; xoops gives me nothing but headaches!

"...they should work with 2.4.5 and likely with 2.5 and hopefully 3.0 without much issue." I rest my case!

I'm asking because I'm currently running 4 different websites using Xoops with lots of different modules and bar a problem with extCal in one of the upgrades, I have had no problems whatsoever.

As I said, I'm just curious why this keeps happening to you and not me?

I think the point of BeautyBrains and the main problem is the initial selection of modules for a website.

He is right, there is a lot of dead modules that dont work anymore in the download area.

There should be some kind of way to distinguish the modules that are working and are still maintained by anyboydy if not the originall developer. So that users will now that those are the modules working 99% as expected and are written in xoops standards.

Perhaps modules could have a 'xoops certification badge', so that users could identify them right away. (just an idea)

i've been around since 2004-2005 or so and have seen the tremendous work of the community. The problems and the sloaps that xoops had to overcome in order to become what it is today.
It is not easy to develop such a project. I think that xoops survived to this day cause of a few that really believed and still believe in it.

It is also not a secret that sometimes xoops is being developed with no backward compatibility whatsoever. I understand that occasionally this must happen in order to move on. php4 to php5 for example. But compatibility is a feature tha should not been taken lightly.

There are a few topics around here by people complaining or frustrated with this. That means there is a gap between the developers opinion and the users.

For example the preloaders is said to be depreceated in the future. So module developers are suggested not to use them.

I'm fine with that but i think there should be a function or something included somewhere in the next versions of xoops that will still support them, at least for a few versions of xoops for the modules that are already using them.

I dont want to start a conversation regarding preloaders.Its just an example.

This way everybody will be able to upgrade (especially if there are security issues in the core), without having to worry if their current modules will work with the new version of xoops.

Moreover it will lift the weight of the module developers of updating as soon as possible to maintain compatibility. It will give them the chance to explore the new features and adapt without being in a hurry. Thus avoiding rush mistakes and one upgrade after the other.

I understand why BeautyBrains is frustrated, and I also understand the amount of work and coordination needed to develop such a project, run the website, write/read the forum, inspect the modules etc. so far so good thanks to a lot of people. I agree Xoops still needs some work to catch up with other cmss on some aspects, but as far as i'm concerned there is no need to hurry. To things simple, stable and as compatible as you can but the end-users should be aware of any incopatibilities (modules). Clearly. To help them build a site with less research and headaches.

I feel like i've been writting this forever!!! :)

Mazarin, "I'll have what you are having!"

Please list all the modules that you use and their versions so that new users can know for a FACT that those modules are working with the latest xoops; and just so you know, it that very list that is posted on this site that I usually choose my modules from...

I have done everything that they have instructed me to do. They say upgrade, I upgrade. They say use this module instead, I do. They say change this in the code, I do it. Why is it happening to me and not you, that is for the creator of xoops to answer not me!

kerkyra
Have you ever seen the case where there is a popular night club and it is constantly closing and reopening; they change the decor, the staff, the DJ, sometimes the location and even the name but somehow nothing changes; sure enough within a few months it closes and reopen. Then one day you go down that street and the night club is now a successful booming restaurant...

This is not about modules and developers there is something deeper that needs to be addressed here; THEY need to figure out what it is that they are doing or not doing that is creating the same complaints over and over and over again EVEN WITH all the new changes they are putting into place.

If they do not figure out what is they are doing or not doing FROM THE TOP then xoops will continue to be run as it is right now and I guarantee, WE will see no changes on our end and xoops will become a thing of the past.

... and kerkyra I'm a SHE not a HE; I take it that was a typo

The Blue Move initiative is designed to encourage some knowledge sharing from the more experienced Xoops developers. Hopefully this will make it easier for other users to troubleshoot modules that once worked and mysteriously stop working when they upgrade Xoops.

If developers who upgrade modules can just post a 'Blue Move Tip' to explain what they have changed (not about new features, just compatibility issues) then that information can be used to bring other old modules up to speed. There's a special Blue Move Forum for any words of wisdom!

I agree that the core devs need to be mindful about backward compatibility, but sometimes a module developer will use custom methods that break the module's forward compatibility. Hopefully some proper documentation will get everyone in tune.

In the meantime, as redheadedrod says, Xoops upgrades are nearly always feature-based, not security based. Provided you install Protector and keep an eye on any security bulletins here on XO, there is nothing wrong with sticking with a version of Xoops that works with your critical modules.

Most of my sites use Xoops 2.3 and it works very well.

Yes I feel the frustration too. The best solution is to do as your doing and ask questions and try to make sure the modules and such are working best you can.

Because of the vast combinations of themes, modules, host settings etc it is vital to have somewhere to test things and it is thus vital to have a test server. You don't generally have to do much to get a test server. Heck I am using a netbook that cost me $200 as a test server and it works well. There are a variety of ways to make a test server. You should never be putting new stuff on an active site until you have tested it out and made sure it works. This is the case with ANY of the CMS's or any other web software you use.

And yes it is frustrating to upgrade but as time goes on there are changes made to the core code or to the software hosts are providing. These are sometimes done to provide new functions, for security reasons or whatever.

Personally I think some major changes to the Module Repository module and the way it is done will resolve some of the issues that have been mentioned here. That is a major undertaking and at this time as far as I know there is no one actually working on making any changes.

As to the other issues, there are a variety of things in various stages that should in effect resolve the "non repository" issues for now. The "blue move", updating documentation, generic frameworks and such should go a long ways to preventing these sorts of issues. Hopefully work will get done on the repository to make it easier to find what you are looking for and what works.

Until this all happens (Assuming it all happens) we all need to have patience and see how it goes. MOST of the recent modules that work in 2.3.3 SHOULD work in 2.4.5 and newer. Anything older and who knows.

Rodney