xoops forums

script_fu

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 12:20
script_fu
script_fu (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 1494
Since: 2002/12/27
#71

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:

vaughan wrote:
actually, no money has been spent on impressCMS by the Foundation. not 1 single penny.

the server fees were paid in advance when the new servers were originally purchased for the XOOPS community. It is true that XI is hosted on that server. But being as DJ refused to accept it and purchased his own server to use etc. it is not our fault that the server has not been used for xoops.org itself.

as for being developed behind closed doors.

impress is open development. see the SF project site. anybody can join and is free to do so.

Quote:

I keep seeing people like herko and davidl2 added to the project admin on sourceforge. Then it disappears? Now Dave L have been removed here on the XOOPS project and is now on the impresscms for the second time.


u are mistaken, herko & david have never had admin access to SF and been removed and then added again. neither has Dave_L, yes he was project admin there, but dj removed that and placed christian as project manager instead, Dave has always been a member of sf group, he hasn't quit and come back again, his name has always been in the group. so you are mistaken.

but i'll say again, no funds have been used or donated to the project from the Foundation.

you are ill-informed yet again probably from listening to BS's ill-informed opinion again.


You are very ill-informed at best.
I stand by my statement and will testify in a court of law to the fact that marcan, david and herko were being shown in the project admins section of the impresscms on sourceforge yesterday.

All three of these members make up the board of the XOOPS foundation.



Do not insult this community with your BS.

Shine

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2007/12/12 12:58
Shine
Shine (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 822
Since: 2002/7/22
#72

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:
Yes, it indeed is very sad.

But this also is presenting a serious ethical, moral, and legal issue for the XOOPS Foundation Board of Directors: Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2.

First, let's set the baseline: Board of Directors of the XOOPS Foundation has the ethical, moral, and legal responsibility to look after the best interests of the XOOPS Project. Nothing different from a Board of Directors of any company. The mission of the Foundation is clear about it - it is to: "support the XOOPS Project and the XOOPS Community in any way it can." That's what Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2 committed to by becoming a member of the Board.

Now let's go through the timeline:

Sept. 13th: Marcan, while a member of the XOOPS Foundation, who is obligated to "support the XOOPS Project and the XOOPS Community in any way it can" creates ImpressCMS project, which is a fork of XOOPS, and thus a competitor of XOOPS:

a) he creates ImpressCMS project on SourceForge
b) he registers www.impresscms.org and www.impresscms.com, of which DNS address is then forwarded to his server INBOXHOSTING.COM

He is joined on this ImpressCMS project by Herko and David I2, while there are still members of the Board of Directors of the XOOPS Foundation and who supposed to look after XOOPS Interests!

All this is happening in a secretive manner. Outside, they present themselves as fully loyal XOOPS members, publishing on:

Oct. 10, 2007 XOOPS Manifesto

Nov. 14, 2007 New Community Initiatives

In the meantime they are actively recruiting XOOPS developers to join their efforts (current list as of Dec. 12 includes 20 developers.) All this while they are still members of the XOOPS Board of Directors.

Now, by ANY ethical, moral, and legal standard, this is a clear "breach of contract" and violation of their Board duties. One just CANNOT be in a good faith a member of the XOOPS Foundation with the mission to "support the XOOPS Project and the XOOPS Community in any way it can", and at the same time actively create a competing project and actively recruit developers from within the XOOPS Community for it.

Since The XOOPS Foundation / Stichting XOOPS is a legal entity under Dutch law, such behavior has clear legal consequences for the Members of the Board of Directors who are clearly acting in bad faith and with the intent to damage XOOPS - after all I don't think that anyone of them would believe that "Hey, if we create ImpressCSM, it will help XOOPS".

Therefore, I would like to formally request that:

a) Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2, have to IMMEDIATELY resign from the XOOPS Foundation, as they clearly violated the trust of the XOOPS Community and committed illegal and unethical activity.

b) Before they resign, the should appoint to the Foundation Board the current Project Leader, who is DJ. This will ensure continuity of the Board and fulfill the legal requirements of the XOOPS Foundation.

c) DJ and the Project Council will appoint additional members of the XOOPS community to the Board, so the Foundation can move forward with its tasks and objectives.

I truly hope that out of respect for the XOOPS community, Herko, Marcan, and DavidI2, will do the right thing and accept the consequences of their actions, which were clearly in violation of legal requirements of the XOOPS Foundation Board of Directors, and in violation of any ethical and moral standards that I know of, and resign from the XOOPS Foundation Board of Directors!

Come on guys - by creating ImpressCMS, a competing project for XOOPS, you've made your decision and crossed the legal, moral, and ethical line, so please be men about it, and resign from the XOOPS Foundation!

Posted by Mambo on: Today 15:40


Hmm,...... nice impressive overview and gives us to think. Again and I repeat: Now I demand an explanation and official statement from the persons who where/are part of the specific XOOPS councils/foundation/dev team but in the meantime behind screens were busy with a new XOOPS fork ImpressCMS. Make also a statement who are all involved with ImpressCMS and that's it.
Then everybody knows what was and is going on and can these endless discussions close.

I am not angry there is a new XOOPS clone (great I am curious what it will bring in the future) but it is just the way how all is going.

script_fu

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 13:06
script_fu
script_fu (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 1494
Since: 2002/12/27
#73

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

I agree I do not care if they fork it. But after many years this shady way of doing things is not the best way to do it.

For god sakes back up your private forums on Xi and port them over to impresscms. Then talk how your going to improve on the fork website.

Don't do it on the XOOPS community dime. Return those website to the XOOPS community.

This is the stand up thing to do. Good luck with the fork of impress.

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 13:33
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#74

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:
Wishing back the good old times, where XOOPS meant fun and community. An open statement from the "leavers" seems to me a good idea, which will never come I fear.


I hope, it will.

Quote:

Who wants to join me creating a new fork called POOP (PURELY egO ORIENTED PORTAL)? I guess thats what its all about nowadays.


Yes, it is very unfortunate that some people tend to forget that it's not about you or me, but it's all about the SOURCE, the OPEN SOURCE!!!
Support XOOPS => DONATE
Use 2.5.10 | Docs | Modules | Bugs

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/12/12 14:25
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10770
Since: 2004/4/23
#75

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

In response to Marcan's message on XOOPSInfo:

Quote:
Hi everyone,

I just had a chat with Mamba to explain a few things that where not correct in his post.

First, the time line is not correct.

On September 13th, James Morris registered the impresscms.org domain as well as the ImpressCMS project at sourceforge, for reasons of his own. He gathered 3-4 people but it did not work. A few weeks later, the impresscms.org site was closed.

At the end of November, a group of people that was disagreeing with the way XOOPS was managed decided to form a Google group to discuss possible solutions.

In the mean time, I started participating to the Drafting Proposal Preparation Team lead by Madfish and Sailjapan, as a representative of the XOOPS Foundation.

My last post on their forum was on December 1st.

On December 3th, I had personaly lost all faith in the current XOOPS situation and I was now convinced that it would take years before the project would be back on his feet if it was ever.

James had told me earlier about ImpressCMS so I contacted him and he decided to join me in this new adventure. I wrote down a draft of a project and I proposed it to the Google group to see if they would be interested. Nearly everyone joined. ImpressCMS was then started.

James gave me admin privileges on ImpressCMS Sourceforge project and changed the DNS of the domain to point it on one of my server.

On December 5th, it was clear that a Google group was not the best place to discuss, so we needed a forum. Since everyone was already registered at XoopsInfo.com and since the administrators of this site were on board with us, we decided to use a forum there. The forum was to be private for now because we needed to organize our thoughts, organize our vision, our objectives and our roadmap.

When this was to be completed, it was our objective to:

- Make a public statement on the ImpressCMS.org site
- Move our forums to ImpressCMS.org

We are now a few days away from this happening.

You can see in attachment, the SourceForge Audit trail displaying the changes in the ImpressCMS project, making it clear that people started to join ImpressCMS on December 3rd.

So, Mamba, in your list, you were not correct about the timeline. The Foundation has nothing to do with ImpressCMS. However, I do agree, that it would have been more transparent to have resigned from the Foundation before starting this.

I agree to this and I hereby resigned from the board of directors of the XOOPS Foundation. I will address a proper resignation letter today.

As for using the Foundation's assets to do this, well, XoopsInfo was created by volunteers and the Foundation did not invest 1$ in it. It only provided the hosting. And since the servers of the Foundation are not used by the Council and that the XoopsInfo site administrators agreed to grant us this access, I see no real problem.

However, I can understand why it could be seen like a transparency problem, hence why will be moving our forums to another server.

What is the most important for us is to start fresh, to stop fighting and to participate in a true open source project which has a great vision, a great community, a great product and most of all, a project that IS FUN to be involved with.

Since the last 2 weeks, we have been experiencing the fun every single minute, and I can’t wait to share this fun with everyone who would like to participate !


Marcan:
Quote:
So, Mamba, in your list, you were not correct about the timeline.


I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying it.

Quote:
The Foundation has nothing to do with ImpressCMS. However, I do agree, that it would have been more transparent to have resigned from the Foundation before starting this.

I agree to this and I hereby resigned from the board of directors of the XOOPS Foundation. I will address a proper resignation letter today.


Thank you. I hope, we'll have also resignation from Herko and David. I think, this is the best way to start with a clean slate for you and the rest of ImpressCMS, and let XOOPS follow its path.

I also hope, that the current Board (you, Herko, David) will help XOOPS to transition to a new Board from the legal perspective, i.e. whatever forms are needed to fill out to make it happen, and that this will be done in a professional manner.

Quote:
As for using the Foundation's assets to do this, well, XoopsInfo was created by volunteers and the Foundation did not invest 1$ in it. It only provided the hosting. And since the servers of the Foundation are not used by the Council and that the XoopsInfo site administrators agreed to grant us this access, I see no real problem.

However, I can understand why it could be seen like a transparency problem, hence why will be moving our forums to another server.


Excellent! Thank you!

We just need a clear separation, i.e. whatever is happening on XOOPS Websites is benefiting XOOPS, and whatever is related ImpressCMS is happening somewhere else. Thank you for your understanding on this.
Support XOOPS => DONATE
Use 2.5.10 | Docs | Modules | Bugs

vaughan

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 15:45
vaughan
vaughan (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 684
Since: 2005/11/26
#76

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:

looked at the list when it had 13 members .. Herko was not listed at that time. After that time I spoke with Mamba, and he pointed out to me in email that the list had increased... Later I went to the list and it was 22 And Herko was listed as a project manager. I specifically noted that.


13 members? then 22?

there's only 16 now, there has never been 22 as far as i'm aware.. not in the impresscms project anyway, there may be/have been in the xmtd project group which was used initially under the name XOOPS reboot (not impresscms)

herko was never admin.

and i am not admin in the project either. i was and still am admin in the xmtd group though, but that is now defunct as we are using impresscms project.

please get your facts in order.

as for marcan, herko and david resigning?

why?

it is not against any rule whatsoever for those people to want to help & support another project. the foundation is not supporting it with funding.

thew foundation is there to support xoops, but either way, as you so elequantly put it the other day along with BS, the Foundation does not exist in XOOPS anymore, that was your statement not mine or the foundations.

xoopsinfo is still supporting XOOPS, and it will also be supporting impressCMS. and there is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting both.

vaughan

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 15:45
vaughan
vaughan (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 684
Since: 2005/11/26
#77

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:

looked at the list when it had 13 members .. Herko was not listed at that time. After that time I spoke with Mamba, and he pointed out to me in email that the list had increased... Later I went to the list and it was 22 And Herko was listed as a project manager. I specifically noted that.


13 members? then 22?

there's only 16 now, there has never been 22 as far as i'm aware.. not in the impresscms project anyway, there may be/have been in the xmtd project group which was used initially under the name XOOPS reboot (not impresscms)

herko was never admin.

and i am not admin in the project either. i was and still am admin in the xmtd group though, but that is now defunct as we are using impresscms project.

please get your facts in order.

as for marcan, herko and david resigning?

why?

it is not against any rule whatsoever for those people to want to help & support another project. the foundation is not supporting it with funding.

thew foundation is there to support xoops, but either way, as you so elequantly put it the other day along with BS, the Foundation does not exist in XOOPS anymore, that was your statement not mine or the foundations.

xoopsinfo is still supporting XOOPS, and it will also be supporting impressCMS. and there is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting both.

BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/12/12 15:51
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#78

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Script_fu Said:
Quote:
"Now

I state that on 12-11-07 that the...
Project admins of the impresscms are: andrewvincent, jmorris77, malanciault , davidledbury2 & herkocoomans.

These were the project admins yesterday. Thats the facts so you must be ill informed. They then hide davidl2 and herko again."


I witness that exact membership roster also. I only regret that I did not make a html copy at the time it was posted, because it is so easy for others to claim you are lying if you do not provide visual proof.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

vaughan

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/12/12 15:54
vaughan
vaughan (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 684
Since: 2005/11/26
#79

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

as for your accusations and insinuations about xoopsinfo being closed for maintenance at around the same time.

i can confirm it was closed for maintenance for aprox 20 mins. I was the one that closed the site.

the reason for the closure was because Mikhail had hacked xoopsinfo, he had accessed admin, and utilised the installed XOOPS backup module to send a backup of XI to himself, and 2 other users.

2 users were also added to the webmaster group on xoopsinfo, Bluestocking was one of those users, and another user who so nicely and honestly contacted us to say that he had received a backup in a zip of the XI database, he also informed us that he had admin access when he knew he shouldn't have.

So whilst you question our integrity BS, i seriously question your honesty & integrity because we had not 1 single word from you telling us that someone had given you admin access on xoopsinfo, and it wasn't like you wouldn't have known you had access, because you were on the site quite a lot all through the day. it would have been nice to hear that from yourself. but nothing came from you, except more insinuations and accusations.

and yes it was mikhail because he was careless this time, he left a few logfiles and his IP address which was traced back to Brazil.

that is the reason xoopsinfo was closed the other day.

we are investigating how he gained access, and so far we think but we are not 100% sure as of yet that he may have gained entry via a vulnerability in CBB 3.x module in the search.php script. but again that is not confirmed entry point, although there is a vulnerability in CBB, which i believe Rodrigo is looking into.

BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/12/12 15:58
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#80

Re: Xoops community donations being used to fork Xoops?

Quote:

If you would like to contribute to this project by becoming a developer, contact one of the project admins, designated in bold text below.

Developer Username Role/Position Email Skills
AndrewVincent andrewvincent All-Hands Person andrewvincent at users.sourceforge.net Private
Simon Wilkinson crushdepth No specific role crushdepth at users.sourceforge.net Private
Dave Lerner dave_l Developer dave_l at users.sourceforge.net View
F?x fx2024 Developer fx2024 at users.sourceforge.net Private
Giba Giba Developer Giba at users.sourceforge.net Private
Julian Egelstaff jegelstaff Developer jegelstaff at users.sourceforge.net View
James Morris jmorris77 Project Manager jmorris77 at users.sourceforge.net Private
debianus juancj Tester juancj at users.sourceforge.net Private
Micha? Szyda kurak_bu Tester kurak_bu at users.sourceforge.net View
Vaughan m0nty_ Developer m0nty_ at users.sourceforge.net Private
Marc-Andre Lanciault malanciault Project Manager malanciault at users.sourceforge.net View
Mark Boyden mboyden Developer mboyden at users.sourceforge.net View
Konrad Lutkiewicz picia05 Tester picia05 at users.sourceforge.net Private
Marko Schmuck praedator Developer praedator at users.sourceforge.net Private
TheRplima real_therplima Developer real_therplima at users.sourceforge.net View
saganxis saganxis Developer saganxis at users.sourceforge.net Private
Steve Kenow skenow Developer skenow at users.sourceforge.net Private
Sudhaker Raj sudhaker Developer sudhaker at users.sourceforge.net View
wtravel wtravel Developer wtravel at users.sourceforge.net Private
xoops-magazine xoops-magazine Developer xoops-magazine at users.sourceforge.net Private
nekro ( XOOPS ) young-pee Developer young-pee at users.sourceforge.net Private



Currently there are 21 listed, before Herko was dropped there were 22 listed.

Herko was listed as a PROJECT MANAGER.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG