xoops forums

JMorris

XOOPS is my life!
Posted on: 2007/6/28 12:39
JMorris
JMorris (Show more)
XOOPS is my life!
Posts: 2722
Since: 2004/4/11
#11

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Catz,

I'm glad to see you've decided to keep working towards the greater good of XOOPS.

Just to touch on a few points so there is no confusion...

Skalpa's resignation was formally announced by his replacement; that being D.J..

Yes, there was some confusion for a while. Now, the confusion has been cleared up and we are moving forward.

The teams were created to do the work that needs done in order to get things back on track. You can't repair a ship if there isn't a skilled team to do the repair work.

The current leadership model is simple and temporary. We are moving away from a single point of leadership to a distributed model where there is no single point of failure. This cannot be done overnight. It has to be done progressively.

Quote:
Marcan wrote:

Altough DJ currently acts as the core leader, it was very clear that we are a team and we make team decision. DJ is not an all-powerfull leader


This is also how the team at XOOPSinfo functions. There is no 1 person with absolute say. Everything is discussed and there must be a majority consensus among the team before action is taken.

Regarding your points about leadership...

"A leader takes people where they want to go. A great leader takes people where they don’t necessarily want to go, but ought to be." - Rosalynn Carter

"There comes a moment when you have to stop revving up the car and shove it into gear." - David Mahoney

The above is what I see coming from D.J.

I would also go as far to say that the following quote sums up the direction we are going...

"Surround yourself with the best people you can find, delegate authority, and don’t interfere as long as the policy you’ve decided upon is being carried out." - Ronald Reagan

Pardon the overuse of famous quotes, but they clearly state what would have taken me 2 pages to say.

I sincerely hope that you, Marco, Herve and anyone else who is similarly motivated will step up and say, "Count me in! I want to help guide XOOPS in the right direction."

Bring your strengths, skills and beliefs to the table so that the leadership of this project and community gains in strength. However, to be effective, you must also bring to the table an open mind and a willingness to work as a team member.

"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." - Don Coryell
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

tjnemez

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/6/28 14:03
tjnemez
tjnemez (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1594
Since: 2003/9/21
#12

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
Catz,

Yes, there was some confusion for a while. Now, the confusion has been cleared up and we are moving forward.

Regarding your points about leadership...

"A leader takes people where they want to go. A great leader takes people where they don’t necessarily want to go, but ought to be." - Rosalynn Carter

"There comes a moment when you have to stop revving up the car and shove it into gear." - David Mahoney

The above is what I see coming from D.J.

I would also go as far to say that the following quote sums up the direction we are going...

"Surround yourself with the best people you can find, delegate iauthority, and don’t interfere as long as the policy you’ve decided upon is being carried out." - Ronald Reagan

Pardon the overuse of famous quotes, but they clearly state what would have taken me 2 pages to say.


Project leaders, project councils, teams for this, and teams for that; It is, at this point, totally confusing and I fail to see any forward movement.

The famous quotes are just that - famous quotes, the fact is every ship needs a captain. XOOPS continues to flounder and will go no where without strong and immediate leadership. I believe Catzwolf can provide the necessary leadership to take the XOOPS Project forward

tjnemez
Not right now; I am busy screwing up my site!


Dream Catcher Dezines
Mind Health ...

Catzwolf

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/6/28 14:09
Catzwolf
Catzwolf (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1392
Since: 2007/9/30
#13

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Quote:

Regarding your points about leadership...

"A leader takes people where they want to go. A great leader takes people where they don’t necessarily want to go, but ought to be." - Rosalynn Carter

"There comes a moment when you have to stop revving up the car and shove it into gear." - David Mahoney

The above is what I see coming from D.J.


http://onlytraitofaleader.com/2006/07 ... te-a-vision-by-committee/
http://onlytraitofaleader.com/2006/03 ... gement-is-not-leadership/
http://www.itworld.com/Man/050418steering/
http://www.charityvillage.com/cv/research/rom5.html
http://www.aaup.org/publications/Academe/2001/01mj/mj01tier.htm

A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled. - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907 - 1989)

Quote:

"There comes a moment when you have to stop revving up the car and shove it into gear." - David Mahoney


Yes first two things, make sure you're not in reverse and secon that you start off in first gear, anything else will stall you.

There is no monument dedicated to the memory of a committee. - Lester J. Pourciau

mboyden

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/6/28 15:43
mboyden
mboyden (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 484
Since: 2005/3/9 1
#14

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Yes, leadership is necessary; however, I don't believe that we need totalitarian leadership. This seems to be somewhat the thrust of this message.

If you are talking about leadership in code direction, then I think that will become self-evident when the "leader" proposes such direction to the community. Should said direction become the desired direction through a community-based RFC-like process, then those most familiar with that direction (the proposer most likely) would lead the teams in developing that. While I may not be the most innovative programmer, I learn very fast from other people's wisdom.

Does that mean that individual should control the direction? Not necessarily. This is a community project. The best ideas will become self-evident and filter to the top. Like an open-source security review, our ideas, roadmaps, future proposed directions of underlying engine code, etc., also needs that.

I don't see why Catzwolf can't just join the appropriate team, put forth their ideas to the team, and have them undergo that type of review. I'm a spiritual person (some may say religious, but I don't think so). I like having my spiritual beliefs tested regularly. It allows me to strengthen them, tweak them, change them, or throw them out based upon more discussion, inforamtion, and consideration. Again, the best ideas will percolate to the top.

Personally, I'm energized by everyone's enthusiasm. I call upon everyone to set aside any person differences, come to the board in a spirit of cooperation, and focus on building our community. By building the community and trusting our peers, we will succeed. If we can't move past this, XOOPS WILL wither away and die. People are attracted to positive energy and repelled by negative energy.

Here is my suggestion for further ground rules on all of this:
* Focus on issues, not on people
* Speak your mind AND get to the point
* Allow others to speak their mind (don't attack or insult them)
* Use discretion between postings and off the site (i.e., no backstabbing, etc.)

Together, we'll create change, and make a difference!
Pessimists see difficulty in opportunity; Optimists see opportunity in difficulty. --W Churchill

XOOPS: Latest | Debug | Hosting and Web Development

Catzwolf

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/6/28 16:20
Catzwolf
Catzwolf (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1392
Since: 2007/9/30
#15

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Quote:

mboyden wrote:
Yes, leadership is necessary; however, I don't believe that we need totalitarian leadership. This seems to be somewhat the thrust of this message.


Actually I think I am either not making myself clear enough or you are missing my point. Being a leader is not about being some little dictator, being a leader is being able to see what is required, how it can be done and who is best for the job at hand.

Even a community as large as this needs someone with a driving force to push in the right directions. Committees are for people who don't like to take responsibility when things fail. Plain and simple.

Why does Joomla and drupal tower over XOOPS right now? They are both treated more like a business’s rather than an open source project. Joomla and Mambo have both had prominent leaders since their projects started and with one goal in mind. To make their projects the best that there is and I see no different for Xoops. I would say that Andy was a dictator by any means.

whether you like it or not, people look up to strong leadership, I am not saying I am the coorect man for the job but someone has to take the reins and Get XOOPS out of this mess before it is to late.

Quote:

If you are talking about leadership in code direction, then I think that will become self-evident when the "leader" proposes such direction to the community. Should said direction become the desired direction through a community-based RFC-like process, then those most familiar with that direction (the proposer most likely) would lead the teams in developing that. While I may not be the most innovative programmer, I learn very fast from other people's wisdom.


If you read my previous post in another topic you would have already seen my stance on development.

Quote:

Does that mean that individual should control the direction? Not necessarily. This is a community project. The best ideas will become self-evident and filter to the top. Like an open-source security review, our ideas, roadmaps, future proposed directions of underlying engine code, etc., also needs that.


No person should have total control over the future development issues, but one person within that team should have the drive and energy to make sure that the community wishes are pushed through and that these tasks are carried on correctly. Now is you wish to call that person a leader then that is up to you, but someone at the end of the day need to make sure that the work gets done.

Quote:

Here is my suggestion for further ground rules on all of this:
* Focus on issues, not on people
* Speak your mind AND get to the point
* Allow others to speak their mind (don't attack or insult them)
* Use discretion between postings and off the site (i.e., no backstabbing, etc.)

Together, we'll create change, and make a difference!


Sorry but issues and people sometimes go hand in hand, it is not making it personal that is a different story.

Speaking your mind is all well and good, but if no one is prepared to listen then you are wasting your breath. Many good ideas are pushed aside mainly because of red tape etc etc.

Again, you 'lead' by example. Recently to many people in positsion of power have shown how is it not done.

Hence the reason why I am calling for new guidlines not just for users but moderators. Moderators should be taught how to moderate correctly and held accountable for their actions also.

I am not here because I want to control every part of Xoops, I am here because I want to see real change, painful or not and help guide XOOPS in the direction that it should have been three years ago. I want to make sure that if someone says they are going to do a job for XOOPS that they ACTUALLY do it, else if not bring someone else in that will do the job correctly. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions here at Xoops. That means you and me.

ATB

Catz

MadFish

Friend of XOOPS
Posted on: 2007/6/28 17:30
MadFish
MadFish (Show more)
Friend of XOOPS
Posts: 1056
Since: 2003/9/27
#16

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

We *need* to finalise the new management structure and establish rules/terms of reference for important positions *before* we start electing anyone:

* What positions / groups will there be?
* What are their terms of reference?
* How will candidates be selected? By who?
* How will their performance be reviewed?
* If they don't perform, how can they be removed from office?
* How will the system encourage and protect community contributions?

I want to see some rules, written down, that will commit anyone and everyone that wants to stand for election, to run XOOPS in an open, accountable and transparent manner. Please don't ask me to take anything on faith, I've run out of that.

Yours from the 'military democracy' of Thailand,

Madfish.

[Edit: Just to be clear, this post is about a principle, and nothing personal against anyone. I really believe we need to sort out the governance, urgently].

seventhseal

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2007/6/28 18:05
seventhseal
seventhseal (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 253
Since: 2004/8/7 2
#17

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

I smell fear...

Just some observations - I am a rouge - and have been in the code of the many CMS's that people like to use as examples of "new" or "advanced" technology over XOOPS. They have some good code, and they have some sh***ty code...I have seen folks create modules in XOOPS that were directly taken from PHPNuke - crap in = crap out. I have seen folks try to retro flashy interfaces because other CMS's themes have them - so what?

At the end of the day, what is the stability of the core of the code? What is the reason for the need to make changes? What is broken that requires fixing?

I think the leadership in general makes many valid points - and I love to pick on Nuke, because it's a great example of totalitarian development. Don't allow one to control, but also don't allow procedural minutia to stunt growth!

Leaders don't ask to lead, they do. By their examples, they become what it is they seek. So, for all the conversational bites on leader - I don't care. The real leaders will be evident.

Communication is the only thing that will set XOOPS apart from other CMS's. My customers don't give a rats behind what CMS might be used for thier requirements - all they care about is will it work, and is it secure? As long as I deliver, I succeed. XOOPS has been instrumental in that, and yes, I have made my own changes to core code. But nothing that has been earth shattering, or horribly in error.

For the most part, those that can lend to the effort, do so. Those that can be a part of the team, do so. Your leadership skills will be evident.
John Horne - a.k.a. - VelocityWebDev, Seventhseal, CreepingDeath
**********************************
VelocityWebDev Tech BLOG
VelocityWebHost Hosting and Design

skenow

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/6/28 18:11
skenow
skenow (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 993
Since: 2004/11/17
#18

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Quote:

seventhseal wrote:

Leaders don't ask to lead, they do. By their examples, they become what it is they seek. So, for all the conversational bites on leader - I don't care. The real leaders will be evident.

Quote:

For the most part, those that can lend to the effort, do so. Those that can be a part of the team, do so. Your leadership skills will be evident.


One of the best bits to come out of this thread! (and worth repeating)

debianus

Not too shy to talk
Posted on: 2007/6/28 19:11
debianus
debianus (Show more)
Not too shy to talk
Posts: 179
Since: 2006/12/17
#19

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

You are a person respected and wanted here. You have exposed opinions and suggestions very guessed right. But I believe that after as much speaking we cannot be eternally thinking who form the Teams or that is what they must do, or if they are too many Teams. Right, there are errors, failures.

You have much to contribute, please, try to help us....explains your ideas in Core Dev, do your suggestions on documentation, look at here and gives us your opinion. We needed to begin to work, to offer to xoopers new developments, an appropriate documentation etc. The present structure of XOOPS is transitory, had big errors. Yes, but if we did not work everybody will get tired of single speaking without results.

giba

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2007/6/28 22:29
giba
giba (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 638
Since: 2003/4/26
#20

Re: Project Leader: Catzwolf

Sorry my friend Catz.

We create a special site to work version 2.0.16 because our offers in xoops.org were not welcome here.

We do not receive support, attention and we join some collaborators to initiate this work in February of 2007. More details you will be able to see in this topic.

The compatibility with the modules 2.0* is basic and unnegotiable at this moment, for the good of ours loved xoops. I want to confirm here my vote in its support a Catz.

Of this its friend whom he desires to see opensource to evolve and also to help in what I will be able and to know.

Thanks all xoopers.