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Dave, that is very true. XOOPS management has even banned its own members from participating on management forums, without any warning or discussion. Now that's what I call genuine sensorship and outright misuse of power. But I should not be discussing that here in a public forum? Q.E.D.

When I talk of members only forum, I mean just that, 46051 members can view its content and participate. Joe public cant. That is not what I call 'privatizing' We are share holders in xoops, but we should not have to discuss everything on the street.

LOL, nice thread.


Excellent posts Carnuke.

Agreed and was my first thought on seeing the efforts of Eric to ask everyone....
if he only knew how many times i have asked and been told……
“we discussed it privately last night” = while u were sitting in the other room also thinking about Xoops, =
“so why wasn't i invited” = normal question...
This is my main point of feeling disgruntled at you lot, when after seeing nothing done and if had been invited, as should have been and really should be on the front page of here and for all to be involved, if it is always about all of us that is discussed anyways.
Then what right does anyone have to discuss the future of an open source-project privately…you do realize that is a definition of a cult as such, except for our charismatic leader is the CMS system…….. then work would have been done next day, that applies for the last 3 years......for me who just sits here getting on with the web all day….i think soon though going more live and less web…so that was a nice 3 years…thxz
So lets wake up and discuss things fairly where all are welcome, not a select group....

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Eric - I congratulate you for putting your hand up. I hope you are heard.

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Agreed here too - so eric - there does need to be a balance in the openness...but like carnuke when I observed selectiveness in who was part of behind closed door discussions on the future of XOOPS I was mortified.

If you think you can help put a stop to the 'lets talk about what to do' (or whine about what is wrong) and direct the traffic to get things done, supporting current tasks and allocating appropriate new volunteers to appropriate tasks (AKA being a successful 1 minute manager)then I'd like to see you given a go - we can only try. XOOPS will not fix itself - we need to do something, you have offered, i wish you well in being heard.

After living with someone for 21 years who recognises problems but does not actively seek to help himself by looking for solutions and risking the adoption of those solutions I can see he is clearly stuck in a box of go nowhere and do nothing until someone or 'life' forces the box to open up and change shape. The end result is he stays stuck for a very long time and hopes to win tatslotto instead.(Or he relies on me to solve the problems - and that is exhausting especially when a lot of the problems are ones I cannot take ownership of) It aint gonna happen - we cannot rely on luck in life - and have to take ownership and responsibility of what is.

That seems to be part of what is happening here since distrust entered the picture. Distrust has it's place - but it is making us far too stuck in a box. It is time for some carefully managed risk taking and someone putting their hand up to say let me have a go at leading us out of this quagmire should be supported and encouraged. So - go eric - you have my support.

In fact after talking to Herko and him saying about flack of a single focal point i believe that is wrong also and why no comment actually on SourceForge when you asked Eric....

What i do believe and feel is we should have open democracy and add flipping XOOPS polls to the forum...there is also search in my latest copy and titles...plus stripped so is faster....yet that is all just so we can use it allot...

It is the logical next step in politics and i have been repeating this on here for ages......as in if all get one vote and then choose, what they want to see happen then that is open source, openly...and no one person is ever responsible if it all goes wrong we all are; as we all got to choose them things.....and when the polls are in the forum it takes you the same or roughly the same time to add a poll to your thread....of which is best or how would you prefer this....not lets give one big developer lots to do, and then allot of us don't want them features.....

I know some of you want a whale CMS, yet i was looking streamlined and choose XOOPS out of all the CMS's available at the time....now as time has progressed features have been added and parts of it now going over the lot recently, i am unsure i would have liked the features included in the manner they have....
so this isn't just project leader, yet a look at what open source is and true democracy as currently politics in all our countries is Babylon and the roman empire we elect peoples, who were already there to start....just like roman senate

in the UK we all have the house of LORDS still having final say before a decision is passed.....or the G8 again both private meetings where the general public does not even get a vote on what they believe.
This is not democracy and if XOOPS can show how this works here they also show the world it can work for real. where we all get to vote online for what is needed....can you imagine a world like it.....i can i come from it, its called oneness or heaven....so lets help the future create its self as we all want and all choose.

Then all Eric will have to do is follow the votes and ask good polls questions to start with to find out what is needed….not be left unsure and having to go having even more private conversations, as everyone opinions are different and if asked people waffle on of how’s; when mainly is yes, no questions.
That is the only fair way I can think of; otherwise in a years time it will be lets all get Eric and find another, as we have just seen happen.

Well, another long thread …

We have to understand that certain things should not be discussed in public. Does anybody think that all 46000 members want or like to be involved in everything? Most of us – the simple users – only want to find answers to our XOOPS questions or solutions to our XOOPS problems.

If the outcome of a (private) discussion is not published, then, it is not the existence of the private forum that creates the lack of information; it is rather the lack of organization that creates the problem.

This is where xoops.org is having problem lately. A lot of things are discussed (in private forums, MSN, by phone, you name it) but there is not any announcement in news or in public forums.
For example, lately there were complaints about the lack of version 2.3 testers. I visit xoops.org very often but I never saw an announcement that there is such request.
From the other side, I do not have the time to look around the web and read everything.

So, to my opinion, it is the management and the organization that suffers not the private discussions (they can happen anyway).

Even this discussion will be endless or without any result (since there is not someone having the responsibility to decide as happens to organized communities), somebody has to take the decision: To have or not to have private discussions? The question now is who?

Concluding, I would recommend that there should be a team formed by a remarkable number of experienced members, having their private forums, having (at last) the right to vote for subjects that are critical, …, AND bear the responsibility of the success or the death of XOOPS…

Thanks for the patience.
I’d rather stop posting again in this thread. It will never end so.

i am very happy that so many people have read and posted on this thread. regardless of the outcome i believe the free and open exchange of ideas is important.

now i hope that our project administrators will see this and have an opportunity to comment. what they think is most important at the moment, so i will refrain from further comments for now and greatly look forward to hearing from them or people close to them.

i'm here if needed & i love XOOPS!

thanks again to everybody.

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No you would actually do the decent thing and cover her back up without anyone noticing. By the time you got out the lift everyone would have seen anyway. You spare her blushes by having to have tell her later. This way she doesn't know and nether do the people in the elavator.

We did have a lead project manager, remember? But Herko either quit or was pushed....

What's your point, John? I'm not being hostile, just trying to understand.

The same as my post was just saying....that a single focal point means people blame that point or person.....voting and polls means all is open and all get the blame.