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JMorris
[Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/13 11:46

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Per a very wise suggestion in the XOOPS vs mambo thread, discussion about a "scriptlance" site has been moved to here.

Here are the relavent posts thus far...

Quote:

Herko Coomans wrote:
Yeah, everybody loves a wishlist
But we simply don't have the resources to work from a wishlist. Plus there are so many wishes out there...

Another idea out there is to have a development fund, where you can pledge donations to a certain development, and devs can sign up for those developments and get paid the pledged amount of donations. That way we can free up resources and devote the free time to the core...

Herko

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
Quote:
Another idea out there is to have a development fund, where you can pledge donations to a certain development, and devs can sign up for those developments and get paid the pledged amount of donations. That way we can free up resources and devote the free time to the core...


Now *that* sounds like a Win Win situation!

Quote:

xianxoop wrote:
good idea to have a development fund. If it start I will pledge the first $500 and another $500 every 4 months
I think xoop has commited user base with some free loaders
but that should not stop cration of development fund with some reporting accountability to doners group.

Quote:

davidl2 wrote:
I think there is a lot of scope into taking the "Friends of Xoops" a stage further, and perhaps having an officially adopted "scriptlance" type project... for things such as this...

Quote:

xianxoop wrote:
Can we have Friends of XOOPS brain storm.

Also what are the inputs from core developers, these guys are the hero.

Can we all exchange ideas and then formulate it

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
I like the idea of having a scriptlance setup, but with some limitations. I've visited several bid-for-work sites and I can tell you, it gets ridiculous. You get grossly under qualified people bidding ridiculously low rates that do half-ass work. This cannot be allowed to happen here, IMHO. If a scriptlance-like setup were to be implemented, I firmly believe is should not be a part of the XOOPS family of sites, or the XOOPS foundation. I just see way too many opportunities for bad things to happen.

Here's what I propose:
An independent site be developed by a non-core team member where qualified developers can sign up to offer their services for a reasonable fee.

The manager of the site would not be a programmer who is available for hire from the site.

Every programmer who wishes to join the site must goes through a verification process where their identity, portfolio, and skills are assessed. This will foster trust in the developers by the clients and will, most likely, result in more satisfied clients.

As far as bidding for jobs goes, that's touchy, real touchy. I have not thought of a better way yet, but the gerbils in my head are hard at work on it. Any suggestions?

Since the primary audience/clientele is XOOPS users, and since the clientele wouldn't exist if XOOPS wasn't here, I believe a reasonable percentage from every job should automatically be donated to XOOPS.

In all fairness to the maintainer(s) of the "xoopslance" site, I also believe a reasonable percentage from every job should also go back into the "xoopslance" site to help cover hosting expenses and to make it worth the maintainer's time to keep the site running smoothly and to provide support.

I believe that there should be an election to decide who will be the maintainer(s) of the xoopslance site. No ego trips belong here. This should be about trust and offering a valuable service to the community, not lining your pockets, running the show, or obtaining bragging rights. Perhaps even a small board of maintainers. That way if one member fails to perform their duties adequately, they can be voted off the board in favor of a better candidate. This would further enhance trust in the "xoopslance" project from the community.

These are just a few suggestions off the top of my head. I firmly believe there is a place for paid development in XOOPS ONLY IF IT TRULY WILL BENEFIT XOOPS.

Does anyone have any comments/suggestions/opinions/etc. they would like to add to this discussion?

Best Regards,

James

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
BTW... Yes, I am aware that this is not a new discussion and that xoopslance.com/.net/.org is already registered. However, there has been no discussion of this in quite some time, and the xoopslance sites return "Page not found" errors which indicates that their is no active xoopslance site.

If I am mistaken, please correct me.

Best Regards,

James

Quote:

davidl2 wrote:
Some good points there again...

Quote:

Lance_ wrote:
As a note.

I purchased the scriptlance code "freelancers" a couple months back and am in the process of setting up a site running XOOPS 2.2 and was planning to concentrate on the CMS market.

In essence offering a place for the different CMSs out there to find the coders. And the coders to offer their services.

I like the ideas exposed already.

Cheers.

Quote:

xianxoop wrote:
I strongly agree.
I believe this group should work as nonprofit group and under GPL licensing
I also strongly believe that 2 members from core developers should be on the board with veto power ( this is important to keep this group ALWAYS as part of XOOPS community and in line with founders/developers strategic vision) we don’t need Microsoft java vs. Sun java and ……….

It will be nice that core developer to have their voice in this. Again this should not be look at as split or any other nonsense. It is just help the core developers and time to market. I could provide infrastructure and seed money and initial admin till it takes a shape and committee finds suitable person to handle the job.


<>

Very good point. Could not agree more

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
Hmmmm... Sounds like there's a foundation for this project beginning to form.

Freelancers Script on a XOOPS site.... Check
Financial Backing.... Check
Willing Admin... Check

Any Core Team members wish to comment?
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
2
Mithrandir
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

Big thumbs up - but are you sure you want core developers to budge their/our noses into this?

It depends on the type of projects, I guess. Will it be mainly modules, themes or core hacks that will be developed here?

Core hacks may go in one direction, another in another direction and suddenly we have a phpnuke situation with so many forks and "hotfixes" that it is impossible to figure out what you need to run a certain module - but are you sure that you want a core developer (or two) to say "nope, don't make that project" when someone is paying for it?

I mean - I'd be happy to comment and give my evaluation of the usefulness of a certain project, but the power of deciding (and hence the responsibility to make good decisions) which are good projects and which are not... I'm not sure that is a responsibility that I would like to have.
"When you can flatten entire cities at a whim, a tendency towards quiet reflection and seeing-things-from-the-other-fellow's-point-of-view is seldom necessary."

Cusix Software
3
JMorris
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/13 12:10

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Very good points.

Quote:
I mean - I'd be happy to comment and give my evaluation of the usefulness of a certain project, but the power of deciding (and hence the responsibility to make good decisions) which are good projects and which are not... I'm not sure that is a responsibility that I would like to have.


I believe what would be a good "role" of Core Team members in this situation is more of an advisory role. One of the goals of the scriptlance site should be to lessen the burden on the Core Team. Therefore, if Core Team members only act as advisors to ensure that core hacks do not pose security or compatibility risks, they would not have to make the final call. That would be left to the scriptlance manager(s) to hash out.

I believe a wise idea would be to include a disclaimer on the project submission page that indicated that not all projects are approved. That projects must meet a certain set of criterion before approval. This would be to ensure that the results of the project do not create security vulnerabilities or forward compatibility issues, hence cutting down on the number of support requests.

Some people might not like that idea. My thinking is, if you want dirty hacks done, go somewhere else. If you want the job done right, come to the scriptlance site.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
4
Lance_
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/13 12:22

  • Lance_

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 983

  • Since: 2004/1/12


I think it would be quite difficult to police the quality of modules created before it has been worked on, and I don't see how someone could decide wether a particular requested module is appropriate or not.

And you must lok at the module that a user will get coded and not want to release to the community. What would you suggest for this?

I find that some of the ideas do limit certain possibilities in a viable solution, and some things should belong to the community here once items are released. (such as the coding quality, security. It should be verifeied then before making it available in the repository.)


I will also add that my idea for the scriptlance that I've been working on is not limited to the scope of xoops, but will also include all interested open source software.

I've adopted a couple suggestions already, the brainstorming is excellent.

Cheers.
GDL-Web.com :: Website development.
Xoopslance.com::Freelancing and Projects
thelionsden-arena.net:: Clan/League/Ladder Hosting
5
JMorris
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/13 12:29

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Quote:
I will also add that my idea for the scriptlance that I've been working on is not limited to the scope of xoops, but will also include all interested open source software.


In one way, I see where this might be a good thing. However, I'm a little concerned about confusions that may arise.

If the site is open to all open source systems, I believe that developers should have to specify in their application what platforms they are experts in. That way, they could be limited to only working on platforms they "know".

Would you want a xaraya developer working on a XOOPS core hack? I certainly would not *unless* that developer is skilled in both platforms.

Best Regards,

James
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
6
Lance_
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/13 12:35

  • Lance_

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 983

  • Since: 2004/1/12


Of course, that's the basic idea. The available categories will be the CMS or app name, then if possible a subcategory for modules, themes etc.

GDL-Web.com :: Website development.
Xoopslance.com::Freelancing and Projects
thelionsden-arena.net:: Clan/League/Ladder Hosting
7
JMorris
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/14 20:50

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


::bump::

Surely more than a handful of people have an opinion on this?
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
8
LazyBadger
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

Quote:

Surely more than a handful of people have an opinion on this?

Useless toy. Will die as "XOOPS incubator" died

There are a lot of more hot and useful tasks
1/ Mark modules in repository as "Maintained" | "Unsupported"
2/ Mark PHP5-ready modules
3/ Mark XOOPS 2.2 ready modules
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Webmaster of
XOOPS2.RU
XOOPS Modules Proving Ground
XOOPS Themes Exhibition
9
JMorris
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/14 21:59

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Quote:
Useless toy. Will die as "XOOPS incubator" died


//begin sarcasm
You're just Mr. Sunshine now aren't you?
//end sarcasm

Does anyone have anything positive to say? After all, this may free up time for Core Team Members. In all likelyhood, it would free up time for many in that the users who can afford to pay for module modifications and custom work, most likely will. This will make it possible for member who try to help where they can to use their time more effetively, as LB so :cough: kindly :cough: pointed out.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
10
davidl2
Re: [Moved]scriptlance site discussion

  • 2005/8/14 22:27

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


I would have replied sooner, but my brain is only tiny and gets confused with complicated stuff

Seriously... the principle sounds good, but are we talking more about trying to encorage people from outside the XOOPS community to contribute to XOOPS (perhaps from a central fund for funded projects), XOOPS coders - or perhaps a mix of both...?

Although LB is being a bit negative, I see his point that momentum is not kept up on this idea.. it will get soon overlooked

The principle is good, and I think has some potential.... So keep talking and thrashing those ideas out people... lets see what we can do!
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