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21
Catzwolf
Re: Double Standards

  • 2005/2/13 19:39

  • Catzwolf

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1392

  • Since: 2007/9/30


Where I come from free means free. I see nothing that would actually indicate the arguement one way or another. if you wish to put it that way.
22
Mithrandir
Re: Double Standards

GNU Definition:
Quote:

We maintain this free software definition to show clearly what must be true about a particular software program for it to be considered free software.

``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of ``free'' as in ``free speech,'' not as in ``free beer.''


and further down:

Quote:

* The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
* The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
* The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
* The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere
23
Catzwolf
Re: Double Standards

  • 2005/2/13 19:49

  • Catzwolf

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1392

  • Since: 2007/9/30


Yes, Correct. It does say distrubution, postage and packaging etc. The fact is Mith you can twist the words to suit yourself and any situation but the fact remains GNU/GPL was and still is intended for free software in an open source.
24
Mithrandir
Re: Double Standards

I agree, all we disagree on is the definition of "free" which I find quite clearly to be freedom and you find to be clearly free of charge. I simply don't know what else to do to make you see it my way, so I give up.

I don't mind a healthy debate of whether XOOPS should go LGPL, but I reserve my right to consider your basis for that debate to be incorrect, but that's that. Should still be possible to have a debate of advantages and disadvantages with the LGPL over the GPL. Shall we move on to that topic?
25
Catzwolf
Re: Double Standards

  • 2005/2/13 20:14

  • Catzwolf

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1392

  • Since: 2007/9/30


So basically becoz I do not see it 'you're' way I am wrong? You say you want a debate where infact you want me to say 'Yes Sir I agree, well I am sorry I do not agree with you and I am not the only one here at xoops.

I was going to try and have a serious debate regarding this matter but it seems I am wasting my time here.

Catz over and out.
26
Mithrandir
Re: Double Standards

Because you don't see it my way, I do consider you to be incorrect, yes. If I thought you were right, then my way would be your way, wouldn't it?

Elaborating on that a bit - if I did not consider myself to be right, I would change my opinion, but seeing as you have your opinion that is opposite of mine and haven't given me arguments that could persuade me that I am wrong, I must consider you to be wrong. I don't think that it is impossible to debate on that ground, but I do think we have reached an impassé where we have to acknowledge the other's opinion and move on. Otherwise we would be stuck here repeating ourselves.

You have presented your opinion, I have presented mine and argued in favour of that and if you don't agree, then you don't agree, but I don't yield to opinions unless they are backed up by good arguments and therefore I don't see my opinion change unless you give better arguments.
27
Speed
Re: Double Standards

  • 2005/2/13 20:49

  • Speed

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 310

  • Since: 2004/5/18


There should be no arguement over what "free" means in regards to the GPL. It's spelled out in very simple terms that anyone should be able to understand even if English isn't their mother tongue.

I've excerpted the first part for your convenience. It VERY clearly states (see bold text) that freedom with regards to GPL is a matter of liberty, not price. Whether you agree or disagree with charging for GPL files is another discussion and one that I feel is important to the ongoing health of Xoops. But arguing over whether a developer can charge for their GPL'd work is downright silly -- yes they can.

I think this has been posted before in which case to reiterate, for the full explanation of the intent of the GPL, please go to the source: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Quote:
We maintain this free software definition to show clearly what must be true about a particular software program for it to be considered free software.

``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of ``free'' as in ``free speech,'' not as in ``free beer.''

Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:

* The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
* The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
* The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
* The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere. Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do not have to ask or pay for permission.
28
AAINC
Re: Double Standards

  • 2005/2/13 22:34

  • AAINC

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 121

  • Since: 2003/10/18


[size=xx-large]XOOPSClub[/size]



Dear User:
Welcome to the XOOPS Club! This Club has been created for the serious XOOPS users that want to have some extra benefits on the community and at the same time help the future development of this great 00 Content Management System.

XOOPS is a Free Software project released under the GNU/GPL license and distributed for free. Its development cost a lot of time and money from the developers side, and we wanted to offer this new feature as a fair manner to finance the project's costs. Because I don't think that requesting donations is the best way to manage some incomes for the project, I wanted to have a method to obtain the needed money giving something in return to you.

What advantages do you get as a member?
You'll get access to an exclusive private area where you can find extra stuff for your site and to enhance your XOOPS experience. Here is a short list of stuff you'll get as a member:

· Latest XOOPS Official releases not available to the public until a new release comes out
· All XOOPS versions released in a whole year
· XOOPS Alphas, Betas and Release Candidates (which will not be public)
· Special non public released addons from the XOOPS author
· A huge collection of themes, addons, modules and blocks collected from the net
· Exclusive graphics for your site

We are working very hard to get special offers and discounts from third parties companies as an additional benefit for our members.

How much does it cost to be a member?
The cost of the service is US$ 100 for ONE YEAR membership. I need to cover also some costs for the merchant account contract and wire transfers, but I think that is a very low fee and anyone can pay for it to be a member. Remember that you'll be giving direct help for future releases of XOOPS.

Who can apply?
Anyone in the world. There is no limitation and anyone who can pay US$ 100 annualy can join the Club.

How can I join the Club?
To join the Club just click on the button bellow.
Complete the form following a few easy instructions. Please allow from 24 to 48 hours to activate your account. Please note that if you paid with eCheck there will be 4 business days delay. Your account information will be sent to your email.

NOTE: Being a member doesn't give right to you to receive technical support. XOOPS is distributed AS IS without warranty and without technical support. Any technical support email will be ignored. If what you want is just the latest XOOPS release, you can get it from here (If you are Club's member or already purchased Club's membership, you can get any XOOPS release for a whole year, you don't need to pay for each release to have it).
--------------------------------------------------------

What is XOOPS future?
29
jegelstaff
Re: Double Standards

Quote:

The XOOPS club


In case anyone is confused by this strange post, it's a parody of the PHP Nuke club, which is a real thing.

I believe the core team has made clear on many occasions that there will never be a charge for the XOOPS core. The debate that has shaped up here is about charging for modules.

It's worth pointing out that as GPL software, even if a developer charges for distribution of software from their site, anyone who pays and gets a copy can freely turn around and start distributing it from their own site if they want to. That's what the GPL is all about, no restrictions on use and modification of software, free as in freedom, not beer, as has been pointed out to death up above. The result of the free as in freedom restrictions is that it often becomes free as in beer because it doesn't make sense to charge for it.

I think it's misleading and in very poor taste to suggest that something like the PHP Nuke club is going to happen to XOOPS.

--Julian
30
Rhomal
Re: Double Standards

  • 2005/2/13 23:07

  • Rhomal

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 274

  • Since: 2004/10/5


Perhaps then GPL isnt the way to go. Perhaps another licence such as the http://creativecommons.org is the banner which XOOPS should fall under going forward.

It's sad IMO to see people twist the spirit of the GPL. But I think the GPL's time is past and its time to move on to something else.. something where free MEANS free and words cant get twisted to bypass the spirit of open source.

Also, I would like to get a answer to my question. If I buy AMS today, according to the GPL if I understand correct, there is nothing preventing me from posting on my site tomorrow to be downloaded free of charge, correct?
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