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1161

Re: [XoopsTeam] progress - community coordination - June 10th

2007/6/28 8:21
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

@ kc0maz
Thanks for the work with James and DJ helping to clarify our role. I was just a bit unsure what solely for Project meant. Still not all that comfortable with the words governed by Project Council, but that could just be me. As long as we make sure that everyone knows what everyone else needs, then no probs. Being basically a tool enabling clear and accurate passing on of requests from various groupings of the XOOPS community at large (devs are community members as much as are end-users), if a team decides to reject a request, that's not our decision, so there's not much that we'd need to be governed over, I'd imagine... except dereliction of duty perhaps.

Yup, once we're all set up, issue tracking on a wiki would work well, or possibly a ticketing system of some sort.
In the meantime, clutter or not, this is probably the best place to keep our discussions open and on record. I'll take on the recording of ideas here and post a weekly synopsis here if people think that would help us not lose track of anything important that gets posted here.

As for leadership, I think you're doing fine, kc0maz. Unless you'd rather not do it, I nominate you

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1162

Re: [XoopsTeam] progress - community coordination - June 10th

2007/6/28 1:35
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

If I read our brief correctly, we (Community Coordination Team) are charged with helping to make sure that community requests and activities are coordinated...

As kc0maz has very clearly set out, that would include gathering and coordinating user requests. I assume that we may also have been charged with helping mod and core devs find help from the community.

Coordination of efforts by all sections of the community. I don't see our role as ~~controlling or needing to be controlled~~ needing to be solely for any one part of XOOPS. Think of us as an inter XOOPS matchmaking service, if you like

I am a little concerned that if phppp's post (above) were taken literally, we'd be unable to really do our job as was set out here:

Quote:

Tasks:
1 responsible for daily administrative jobs
2 help users to contact corresponding teams upon their requests
3 help users to understand and use XOOPS correctly
4 help users to use the XOOPS official sites properly

Item 2 is the role that we seem to have narrowed ourselves down to. Moderators and Documenters seem better suited to items 3 and 4 (though we'd be willing to assist, I'm sure), and the admin side of things... well, depends on what admin, I suppose.

phppp. Your post was unclear. It seems to run against all logic. Please explain what you mean.

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1163

[XOOPS Project] International XOOPS logos. Take them if you want them.

2007/6/27 18:13
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

Hi,
I just put these together and wondered if they'd be of any use to anyone. Not sure where to post them or who to ask if they can be used, but anyway, suffice to say if the project wants them, they're welcome to them.

Resized Image

I have an archive of jpegs and a psd with all the variations saved as layers here

Hope I'm not treading on any toes.

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1164

Re: Progress Report - Communications Team, 26 June

2007/6/27 4:03
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

bravo!

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1165

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

2007/6/26 20:53
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

Got to disagree with you on a number of points there, akitson.

Namely:

Quote:

akitson wrote:
1/ Tom and JMorris are thanked for their contribution and dismissed

Quote:

phppp wrote:
during the transient period, I has been taking the lead role for establishing XOOPS Project teams and invited JMorris and tom as temporary council members to assist in the procedure, never with task assignments and specified areas. The temporary status for the new Project Council is about to close and their efforts in the past weeks are much appreciated.

I read this to mean that the temporary project council period is coming to an end, and that we can expect an announcement regarding the final P.C. shortly.
I also read it to mean that phppp took the lead in opening debate/discussion on the teams that will supply members of the P.C. (as in he wrote the first posts proposing team formation in most of the threads on this forum).

Quote:

akitson wrote:
2/ Herko never was.

Quote:

phppp wrote:
Foundation, currently represented by Herko, is never intended to be part of XOOPS "management structure" according to the nature of XOOPS Foundation based on Herko's explanation to me.

(My bold.) Seems like phppp is saying here that Herko has explained that the foundation is not a division of the management team.

Quote:

akitson wrote:
3/ The XOOPS Council never was (and still isn't.)

Quote:

phppp wrote:
The Council members included skalpa, phppp, JMorris and two others. JMorris quit very early. The Council itself had never been active, nor officially announced.

I'd interpret this as meaning that the P.C. has been dysfunctional for the last year.

Quote:

akitson wrote:
4/ Despite your protestation that you are seeking Open Management, we still don't have any.

We're talking this over, aren't we?

Quote:

akitson wrote:
If my own personal experience in the last few weeks is anything to go by, this project is doomed to failure simply because you have taken too much on and in the wrong way.

Jeepers, the fella stood up when no-one else did and slapped some life back into the project. Of course he's taken a load on. But, as he stated earlier, the temporary period is almost over (witness the state of the community, dev and core teams amongst others. All roaring ahead purposefully once more), and I don't see anything in his writing that says he's still intending to try and do everything. Give the guy a break.
Quote:

akitson wrote:
You have quoted XOOPS Council as being a bar to the Module Developers team not being able to set up camp in a private forum ( as a way of gathering thoughts as a team [I beleive the core dev team are using third party methods of doing the same thing], prior to public consultation,) yet you here announce that XOOPS Council doesn't exist.

Must have missed that one...

Quote:

akitson wrote:
5/ You want Open communication.

Bring it on.

...

Quote:

akitson wrote:
6/ You want Open development.

Development is the only word that I actually believe is true. The closed down shop that you presided over in the last year was certainly not open.

Don't think it's fair to say that anyone presided over anything much here over the last year. Certainly one guy on a dysfunctional P.C.

Quote:

akitson wrote:
So D.J., you want openness. You got it. If you want to be the XOOPS leader, then you have a great number of bridges to cross yet.

Where does he say he wants to be leader?

Quote:

akitson wrote:
For the benefit of those just listening in, as of 3 weeks ago, I was just a moderator. As of 8 months or so ago I was just an end user, albeit active in module development. I naively volunteered to be the Mod Dev Team leader in response to D.J.'s call to action, and have had to seriously reconsider that in the last few days.

I wouldn't say 'naively'... 'bravely' perhaps, or 'public spiritedly' even.

Quote:

akitson wrote:
I give you a challenge:

Establish a XOOPS Council in the next two weeks. Forget core development, you want to be the leader .. so lead. The developers (good men all) can do their job. You do your self appointed one. If you can't do that, then retire and leave it to those who can.

... I'll say it again. It sounds like an announcement regarding the council is about to be released to me.
I'll say this again too. It doesn't sound to me like he's laying any claim to leadership in this next stage.
The remainder doesn't need a reply.

I'll be charitable here, and assume that you are not used to speaking with people who's first language is not English. I sincerely believe though, that you've got ahold of the wrong end of the stick.

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1166

Re: [XoopsTeam] progress - community coordination - June 10th

2007/6/26 19:01
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

Well that sounds like an excellent idea!

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1167

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

2007/6/25 1:09
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

Quote:

Marco wrote:

[edited by moderator: to remove offending post

[edited by moderator: in order to prevent yet another flame war & personal attack]

I ask as I'm interested to hear, not because I'm for or against you or any other individual here.

Desperate for transparency.

Crip

[mod note: I must make this clear to everyone that it was not Crip's post that was in the wrong, it was edited as he responded to the offending post above.]

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1168

Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

2007/6/23 15:14
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

vaughan wrote:
Quote:

y not a place for the end-user on sourceforge?

Because source forge is patently not designed for mere mortals. It's a dev tool. You're a dev if your sig is anything to go by, and I wouldn't expect you to understand.

What's your problem with this end-user's group idea, vaughan? If you don't like it, ignore it. What's the harm in letting some folk with a different viewpoint of XOOPS have their space here too?

Seems to me that we wouldn't be asking if we hated XOOPS, and just because you devs intimidate us (not in a threatening way, but as in "how the hell do I make this guy understand that I don't understand "xxxxx" without my feeling like a total pratt?") doesn't mean that we should just give up with the whole project.

It's very possible that one of our number knows enough to talk on with a dev at their level (or maybe he just doesn't give a monkeys if he's made to look stupid).

Mate, the tone of your posts is exactly the reason most end users who walk away from XOOPS, walk away.

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1169

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

2007/6/23 13:30
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

Quote:

JMorris wrote:
There is a big difference between assertion and aggression. I think we all can agree that there has been too much aggression around here as of late.

Hear Hear!

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

1170

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

2007/6/21 16:24
sailjapan
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16

JMorris said:
Quote:

It appears that we find ourselves in a situation where misunderstandings have created a tangled mess.

Well. Thank you very much, JMorris, for making that statement. Better late than never.

It would seem that we've all been getting our knickers in a twist over a bunch of misunderstandings brought about by a distinct lack of clarity in communications.

The plan as stated in JMorris's post (above) does seem to clearly define each area of XOOPS the whole, and hopefully will lead to a leaner, less confusing state of affairs.

I, personally speaking, feel that I can jack in the flag waving, and go back to my end user status fairly reassured that some rock solid, super functional product is on it's way.

A few final words:

-Understand that none of what I wrote was aimed at any one person in particular, but at the system as I saw it. Although it now seems that that was from an uninformed position.

-I hope that the value and necessity of timely and clear communication by the uppermost echelons of XOOPS to the rest of us, has made itself crystal clear.

-I also hope that the attitude of 'them and us' is recognized as a primary cause of many of XOOPS's recent woes, and that it can be expunged from XOOPS once and for all.

Facilius per partes in cognitionem totius adducimur. (Seneca)

Crip

Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

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Re: [XoopsTeam] progress - community coordination - June 10th

Re: [XoopsTeam] progress - community coordination - June 10th

[XOOPS Project] International XOOPS logos. Take them if you want them.

Re: Progress Report - Communications Team, 26 June

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

Re: [XoopsTeam] progress - community coordination - June 10th

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

Re: XOOPS Project Council - Current situation

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