102
Exceptional and serious situations need urgent performances. I understand it and the project state was very dangerous.
But it is necessary to try to return gradually to the normal form of performance.
In order to obtain this I believe that the akitson ´s proposal is very right and useful.
It is necessary to define Constitution of the Council.
But it is necessary to try to return gradually to the normal form of performance.
In order to obtain this I believe that the akitson ´s proposal is very right and useful.
It is necessary to define Constitution of the Council.
103
Quote:
I do not agree with you.
I feel frees to express my opinions and I am the person in charge of them.
If I am mistaken, prefer to learn of my errors and to assume my responsibility before the community. If an opinion is expressed with respect, although it can be mistaken it is not a fault.
end-user-rep wrote:
Just an idea... Guests may feel freer to voice their opinions if their is a procedure for allowing them anomity.
I do not agree with you.
I feel frees to express my opinions and I am the person in charge of them.
If I am mistaken, prefer to learn of my errors and to assume my responsibility before the community. If an opinion is expressed with respect, although it can be mistaken it is not a fault.
104
A new summary of some very interesting ideas and suggestions:
Quote:
Posted here
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It does not have any sense to speak and to speak but not to make decisions. There are good ideas here but if the same ones are not made, who proposes them it will not wish to post more.
We cannot allow us to lose only a good idea; this one is the last opportunity por Xoops. If the present process of change fails does not have future. Of course, often, there is too much "enthusiasm", "excessive enthusiasm" in the forums.
This must be understood; during long time the project was a black hole. There are a lot of haste, nerves etc; but the changes need their time and the precipitation is bad.
Everything what it has become has not been correct, without a doubt, but just as when a new government get the power grants a term to him to demonstrate of which he is able, the situation today is so desperate that I believe that we can ignore errors certain if in the future results are seen.
Something that can become is the creation of a forum for the end users. Giba,kcOmaz, Madfish and many others are right. I am in agreement with them.
It is something that does not demand effort, single a minute for the administrator of the site, and would allow to shape many ideas of organized way, would allow that many good ideas were not lost inside the sea of the forums.
I believe that the present Teams, that are initiating their activity, cannot take care of that necessity: the Coordination Team has only a candidate; the Advisory-Team, well... are not many news on if it exists or what it is doing.
In addition, the Teams now has a pile of pending work; must do now what it has not become in years, not a normal or regular work. They have so many pending tasks that they cannot be attentive to the users raise or need. More: it would facilitate the work of the Teams. And in any case, it is a test; if it does not work does not lose anything at least has been tried.
In this momento I see difficult to make the suggestion of phppp; it needs a detailed development and indeed it could become in that new forum.
By this I believe that the Council could pronounces on this proposal. Of course, I am only a end-user more and I do not have prestige in the community, but they are many what they ask for it.
If a request becomes, of course, it does not mean that it must be taken care of. But if it is taken in consideration and a decision is adopted, seal as is, and the same one is explained I believe that although Council does not agree, we have intelligence to understand the reasons.
In any case better than silence.
I beg for these reasons an answer.
Quote:
kc0maz wrote:
The end-users / XOOPS customers need a channel to express their likes, dislikes, needs and wants. More often than not more than one person will express similar thoughts, in a different way. We have seen this right here in this very forum. Someone within XOOPS community needs to be listening and compile this information into a meaningful report to the various teams. The development teams must take the requests of the end-users very seriously. There should be some kind of response from the XOOPS Community to let them know that we have heard them, and are working toward a solution.
The Moderators keep the discussions somewhat friendly and on-topic. They also close inactive threads, remove spam messages, etc. It is so very important that the administrators respect the autonomy of the moderators. If a thread needs to be closed, or reopened, the administration should contact the moderators/Community Coordinators, the rest of the items discussed in the moderators' thread could be dealt with after the team is 'officially' formed.
all to often end-users make a request of something that has already been addressed. The Community Coordinators is to help the end-user find answers to their questions, or requests.
The focus of the Community Coordinators is the end-user. If we, as a community, do not listen to the end-user, and address their needs, The XOOPS project will fail. IMHO, The Community Coordination Team is the most important team. They are often the first and only contact end-users have with the XOOPS Community.
Posted here
Quote:
sailjapan wrote:
Actually, I don't see this as a leadership situation really. The end-users don't need leading, they need representation. We are quite able to express for ourselves what we want, but it's the need to make sure that our voices are heard that led me to say that a 'Team' would be good.
Quote:
phppp wrote:
Good ideas.
Most of the missions of the team are covered by "community coordinator" and "advisory team".
However, IMHO, it will be a very good practice if you build the team as a "purely community based and self organized unit" -- Not meant to be opposite with the "official teams" which are reporting to XOOPS Project Council, but to be a users organized and users managed team.
And let's see which is the better way: officially managed or users self organized.
Quote:
Madfish wrote:
I think there could be some merit in having an end-user team, or at least a forum/area dedicated to end-user issues. End users and devs (and administrators!) often see things is a very different way.
As there isn't much risk or effort required to implement this proposal, and as it may be useful, why not try it out? Maybe its value could be reassessed after six months or something to see if people want to continue?
It does not have any sense to speak and to speak but not to make decisions. There are good ideas here but if the same ones are not made, who proposes them it will not wish to post more.
We cannot allow us to lose only a good idea; this one is the last opportunity por Xoops. If the present process of change fails does not have future. Of course, often, there is too much "enthusiasm", "excessive enthusiasm" in the forums.
This must be understood; during long time the project was a black hole. There are a lot of haste, nerves etc; but the changes need their time and the precipitation is bad.
Everything what it has become has not been correct, without a doubt, but just as when a new government get the power grants a term to him to demonstrate of which he is able, the situation today is so desperate that I believe that we can ignore errors certain if in the future results are seen.
Something that can become is the creation of a forum for the end users. Giba,kcOmaz, Madfish and many others are right. I am in agreement with them.
It is something that does not demand effort, single a minute for the administrator of the site, and would allow to shape many ideas of organized way, would allow that many good ideas were not lost inside the sea of the forums.
I believe that the present Teams, that are initiating their activity, cannot take care of that necessity: the Coordination Team has only a candidate; the Advisory-Team, well... are not many news on if it exists or what it is doing.
In addition, the Teams now has a pile of pending work; must do now what it has not become in years, not a normal or regular work. They have so many pending tasks that they cannot be attentive to the users raise or need. More: it would facilitate the work of the Teams. And in any case, it is a test; if it does not work does not lose anything at least has been tried.
In this momento I see difficult to make the suggestion of phppp; it needs a detailed development and indeed it could become in that new forum.
By this I believe that the Council could pronounces on this proposal. Of course, I am only a end-user more and I do not have prestige in the community, but they are many what they ask for it.
If a request becomes, of course, it does not mean that it must be taken care of. But if it is taken in consideration and a decision is adopted, seal as is, and the same one is explained I believe that although Council does not agree, we have intelligence to understand the reasons.
In any case better than silence.
I beg for these reasons an answer.
105
BlueStocking, I admire your initiative; it is very interesting. But I assure to you that google translator, or any translator, is really a mess for translate paragrahs from english to spanish. English to spanish is better, but the output need a care revision.
It is possible that in other languages the outputs are better, but in spanish no.
Giba: excelent job and very useful.
imrtfan, a precission is required. The language is not the only matter to consider although it is the most important. There are three sites of support in Spanish (Spain, México, Argentina).It is not normal, of course, but it is necessary to also consider the proximity with the local community.
However, essentialy, you are in right.
It is possible that in other languages the outputs are better, but in spanish no.
Giba: excelent job and very useful.
imrtfan, a precission is required. The language is not the only matter to consider although it is the most important. There are three sites of support in Spanish (Spain, México, Argentina).It is not normal, of course, but it is necessary to also consider the proximity with the local community.
However, essentialy, you are in right.
107
Do not mention it; I was a newbie too, I like to help another xoopers; one day you will help too. 
108
Resuming some very interesting ideas:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I can not resume gtop000`s ideas: all are excelents
There are fine messages here. Of course it is difficult to think about a team of end users.
But there are things that must change.
1. - He is not acceptable that for to use XOOPS a user must patch a pile of archives of Core. You want captcha, patches; you want URL short, patches; you want autologin, patches; you want security, install protector, patches.
Where are these hacks?. Not in xoops.org. Where are the support or discussion for these hacks?. Not in xoops.org.
The newbies believe that it not easy install protector, captcha, simplified URL. They are in right.
Whichever archives I do not have myself already patched in my installation. It is very difficult to help the newbies sometimes.
2. - "The modules do not have to comprise of Core".I do not have knowledge to say nothing on the matter, but somebody is going to prove XOOPS will be been strange somewhat of not being able to do nothing. Look at opensourcecom.com
Quote:
Well; there is a discussión about this matter in sorceforge
Although an end user can not to say what is the best for the core (and I am not a encoder), I want that if a newbie try XOOPS for a new project he can do something as easy than write a new, put a link etc. Then it is possible that he stays in xoops.
Which is the best way for modules and patches? I do not know it. But the core team must know these problems.
They can not read handreds of post in forum for to know what xoopers need. The same about future releases; XOOPS 2.3 or 2.4 will need to testing and providing user acceptance feedback.
Resume: we need comunication between coredev and end users. Which is the best way por this?.
I believe that The XOOPS community coordination Team Proposal by phppp is not the solution:
Quote:
A new team?. It is possible we have too much teams; and: Why xxx is the leader? How could a person to represent the community? What about feedback between a new team and the community?. I have questions, no answers.
I am confused. However, there are useful ideas here and we nedd to do something about this, not only speak.
Quote:
Quote:
Dave_Ls
Raising the issue of end-users, and useability, is a good idea. The users' perspective is often overlooked in software development.
Quote:
skenow
If such a group were gathered just prior to the alpha release of a new version, they would be commmited to testing and providing user acceptance feedback for the beta and final release candidates. Once the final release is published, they can debrief and be disbanded. Another group can be established for the next release series. If big software companies can do this, I think we might be able to learn from them.
Quote:
kc0maz
The end-user team / person sounds like a great idea. Some team/person to compile all the comments, complaints of the web masters, end-users, and ideas of those passing through and make reasonable recommendations to the various development teams.
Quote:
madfish
One thing that I hope all teams will do is to develop a mechanism for encouraging and reviewing community suggestions and contributions, in a coordinated manner.
An example would be publishing an open task list (that community members can propose additions to, or take on themselves), and a procedure for reviewing/accepting/rejecting community contributions on a regular basis.
Teams need to look past their own membership to see how they can engage the *whole community* in their work. Closed teams that try to do everything internally will fail - this is an important XOOPS lesson from the past. Please don't repeat it!
I can not resume gtop000`s ideas: all are excelents
There are fine messages here. Of course it is difficult to think about a team of end users.
But there are things that must change.
1. - He is not acceptable that for to use XOOPS a user must patch a pile of archives of Core. You want captcha, patches; you want URL short, patches; you want autologin, patches; you want security, install protector, patches.
Where are these hacks?. Not in xoops.org. Where are the support or discussion for these hacks?. Not in xoops.org.
The newbies believe that it not easy install protector, captcha, simplified URL. They are in right.
Whichever archives I do not have myself already patched in my installation. It is very difficult to help the newbies sometimes.
2. - "The modules do not have to comprise of Core".I do not have knowledge to say nothing on the matter, but somebody is going to prove XOOPS will be been strange somewhat of not being able to do nothing. Look at opensourcecom.com
Quote:
Couldn't find anywhere to add new pages in the demo, so I'm as confused as Brian Haines.
Can't recommend this CMS.
Well; there is a discussión about this matter in sorceforge
Although an end user can not to say what is the best for the core (and I am not a encoder), I want that if a newbie try XOOPS for a new project he can do something as easy than write a new, put a link etc. Then it is possible that he stays in xoops.
Which is the best way for modules and patches? I do not know it. But the core team must know these problems.
They can not read handreds of post in forum for to know what xoopers need. The same about future releases; XOOPS 2.3 or 2.4 will need to testing and providing user acceptance feedback.
Resume: we need comunication between coredev and end users. Which is the best way por this?.
I believe that The XOOPS community coordination Team Proposal by phppp is not the solution:
Quote:
Tasks:
1 responsible for daily administrative jobs
2 help users to contact corresponding teams upon their requests
3 help users to understand and use XOOPS correctly
4 help users to use the XOOPS official sites properly
A new team?. It is possible we have too much teams; and: Why xxx is the leader? How could a person to represent the community? What about feedback between a new team and the community?. I have questions, no answers.
I am confused. However, there are useful ideas here and we nedd to do something about this, not only speak.
Quote:
gtop00
Actually, we all need something simple (as have been said many times): A functional, up to date, safe and well supported CMS under an well organized Team.
109
You do not know me; I am too new like registered user of XOOPS and not able to "moderate me". Nevertheless, three years ago that I read your messages. I admire your common sense,(tu "saber estar", in spanish). The last times have been very difficult especially for a moderator of the forums. Perhaps that was an excessive wear. Does not be used to having a single reason for a decision, but several.
In any case, I believe that all we respect you, we appreciate you and if some day you decide to return, we cover with a mat very happy.
---------------
Quote:
Me too
I thought that the things had changed. What happen?
In any case, I believe that all we respect you, we appreciate you and if some day you decide to return, we cover with a mat very happy.
---------------
Quote:
Why be hasty and leave instead of waiting for clarification.
Sorry, no offense to anyone, I am confused and ignorant.
Best of luck.
Me too
I thought that the things had changed. What happen?
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