11
Mamba
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/8 14:35

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11245

  • Since: 2004/4/23


Quote:

vaughan wrote:

I still think that for now it should still be PHP4 backward compatible. The main reason is that there are still many hosts outthere who don't have PHP5 installed default, and a non default installation of PHP5 on some servers has a few limitations which can vary)

It would be bad to discount php4 entirely as we are then forcing users who want to use XOOPS to have to purchase a hosting plan that has php 5, and they wouldn't want to be buying a new plan if they have say 5 sites located on a PHP4 server. in effect we would be limiting usage.


I have the opposite - my VPS host offers only PHP5. Therefore, my suggestion would be to focus on PHP5 going forward for 2.017, and maintain 2.016 as PHP4 only with security fixes.

The people who currently have only PHP4 could easily stay on 2.016 there till next year (with security fixes). But it's more important for us that the Core developers focus on PHP5 and maximize their time on new important features that will bring XOOPS to the 21st century and make it finally competitive again against the other CMS systems.
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12
Peekay
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/8 16:28

  • Peekay

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2335

  • Since: 2004/11/20


Quote:
Therefore, my suggestion would be to focus on PHP5 going forward for 2.017, and maintain 2.016 as PHP4 only with security fixes.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, except XOOPS is one of the several CMS solutions I use that doesn't release bug-fix or security patches. They always go for a full, incremental upgrade. It's really annoying when you can guess that only a few files have changed, you just don't know which ones. The recent phpmailer exploit is the first 'single-file' security patch I ever recall seeing (cue for someone to prove me wrong!)

If the XOOPS core devs could promise that the latest PHP 4 version would have security patches released promptly, then make XOOPS 2.0.17 for PHP 5. Just don't demand an upgrade to the PHP 5 version to fix security issues, or your user base will diminish very rapidly indeed.
A thread is for life. Not just for Christmas.

13
stefan88
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 7:04

  • stefan88

  • Community Support Member

  • Posts: 1085

  • Since: 2004/9/20


I would like XOOPS to be as much compatible as possible (atleast the core). And see a clear, LONG TERM - 3 to 5 years roadmap, including this subject - PHP/MySQL requirements. But I guess it doesn't matter ...

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

Peekay wrote:
My VPS provider doesn't offer an upgrade service and when I asked about support they literally said 'you're on your own'.



Tell them goodbye


Whatever you do, please keep in mind, that many hosting contracts are made for year. So if someone just renew his contract, that may be expensive.

Also note, that many modules may not work with PHP5 and with too many developers left XOOPS in the past few years we can't expect updates. And core without modules is useless for content management. Your News module may be excelent, but if someone needs only news, there are many lightweight scripts - XOOPS is not needed. The power is/was with the many different modules.

..

14
hervet
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 7:35

  • hervet

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 2267

  • Since: 2003/11/4


From Rasmus Lerdof himself:
Quote:

a) We make a clear statement on PHP.net that at the end of the year we plan to discontinue bug fixes for PHP 4 except for security fixes.

b) We will discontinue supporting PHP 4 on 8/8/8 (because it sounds good and gives people about a year).

15
Peekay
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 8:49

  • Peekay

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2335

  • Since: 2004/11/20


A lot of XOOPS modules will not work with PHP 5 (a xoops.org member conducted a survey of this some time ago). There is still no indication that developers will be forced to provide system requirements in the new module repository. So modules written for PHP 5 will join the ones written for PHP 4 and be unusable for most people that download them. You're just going to get a mass of 'my module doesn't work' posts in the forum.

The range of modules available for XOOPS makes it great. If switching to PHP 5 means the devs have to release a tiny list of PHP 5 compatible modules, like happened with the 2.2.* branch, then XOOPS will lose one of it's main competitive strengths.

IMHO
A thread is for life. Not just for Christmas.

16
Dave_L
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 8:55

  • Dave_L

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2277

  • Since: 2003/11/7


There are two issues here.

1) Should XOOPS be compatible with (the latest stable release of) PHP 5?

2) Should XOOPS be compatible with PHP 4?

The answer to #1 is definitely "yes". And as far as I know, the XOOPS core is fully compatible with PHP 5, although not all modules are.

The answer to #2 is "yes", for now. At some point in the future this will need to change, so that we can take advantage of features in PHP 5 that are not in PHP 4. The big question is when to abandon PHP 4 compatibility; I don't know the answer to that.

(I'm only expressing my opinion here; this is not an official viewpoint of the project council or core development team.)

17
hervet
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 9:08

  • hervet

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 2267

  • Since: 2003/11/4


Peekay,

I'm not sure that modules who are not compatibles (I mean who does not runs with Php 5) are Pro AND safe ...
(and are they still supported ?)

With this kind of talk, XOOPS will be, one more time, the last, to profit of the last gift that technology can brings to us.



Dave,

It's not so hard to be compatible with Php 4 and 5 but that's not the point.
The point is to say "we are now using some functions or possibilities which you can only find in Php 5".

18
Peekay
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 9:20

  • Peekay

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2335

  • Since: 2004/11/20


Quote:

hervet wrote:

I'm not sure that modules who are not compatibles

That's exactly the problem. I don't know either. Neither does any XOOPS user except by the misery of trial and error.

I suggested some time ago that the repository should:

1) Be split into 'supported' and 'unsupported' modules.

2) Force developers to state exact system requirements.

3) Be searchable by system requirements.


If this became the case, I could tell you exactly how many modules work under PHP 5. PHP 5 users could download them, I could avoid them and everyone would be happy!
A thread is for life. Not just for Christmas.

19
hervet
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 9:33

  • hervet

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 2267

  • Since: 2003/11/4


Just an idea :
extend the $modversion array in xoops_version.php to include :

1/ The last date of the module's modification
2/ The Php versions supported
3/ The MySQL versions supported

In 6 months, every module without this is declared, de facto, unsupported (and too old)

But it suppose to have "something" in the XOOPS modules manager.
Something like : "inspect your modules"

Just an idea.

PS : For me it's not to the persons in charge of the repository to do the modules dev's job.

20
Garrath
Re: Moving to Php5 definitively
  • 2007/7/10 19:55

  • Garrath

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 23

  • Since: 2007/6/11


Sorry for my bad english (i speak morefluently php5 than english )

I used XOOPS 2.0.14, 2.0.15 and 2.0.16 on PHP5 without problem on a site for 1,5 years.
I'm using lot of module :
- Protector
- newcbb
- news
- smartsection
- wfdownload
- xcgallery
- weblinks
- liaise
- xhld
- polls
- xm memberstats
...
And all of them without problem from php5.
There is some php5 module on the site. It's some module i wrote, they work fine and they herit and use some core's class, without problem.

There is a great compatibility from php4 to php5. risk of bug is very small, on the moment i think just one thing to make have bug on a php4 code to turn on php5, and there is a little risk to found it, and after little risk to make a bug.

At to day, peoples are affraid to pass on php5... I don't know why?
they think provider don't put php5 on their server... Is not the reality. I look in France, lot of provider put php5 on their server. There is option to get it.
Php5 is more secure than php4 about security hole.

And for developper, is easiest to code on php5, you don't have to think about reference or value when you have a param for function. That is for a beginner.
For a object's developper, php5 offer lot of thing you can found on object's language. You can use design pattern and anything else. You can define interface, you can put private and public attribut or method (code security). etc...
what is the sense of the two O of xoops????

And you know what?
Php6 will be arrive next year...
If XOOPS rest on php4, i think is the death of xoops, because there is a compatibility between php4 to php5 yes, but there'll be not from php4 to php6...

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