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71
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

Point two,

Quote:
"as said about 50 times now, if users want to discuss development issues or where the CMS is heading then discuss on sourceforge because that's where the devs are discussing things and that is where the only discussions regarding XOOPS developments will be discussed." ...Vaughan
_____________________
That would be a welcome relief. Then we can get down to discussing things that are important to us. We will know where to tune into the daily saga of who's in charge if we want to. I like the idea of sorgeforge being the place for those kind of discussions. I just don't believe it is the place for the end-user.

I believe the end-user should feel welcome here, on xoops.org and be able to find useful information concerning his/her needs instead of being bogged down with in-fighting for control. I would like to speak to another end-user sometimes instead of another moderator or team member. We have XOOPS in common. That is our base.

This is the one place we should feel comfortable exchanging our ideas, asking our questions, and presuing conversation about our experiences with xoops.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
72
vaughan
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/23 14:33

  • vaughan

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 680

  • Since: 2005/11/26


y not a place for the end-user on sourceforge? we're all end users!! core development discussion on sourceforge, well then you know that when you search sourceforge you will get information related to the core. and not hundreds of other topics that aren't related.

module & theme discussions etc be on the addons site.. keep them together.. so now when you want module info or theme info, you search the addons site, and the results will be all related to modules & themes without any of the hundreds of irrelevant posts to sort through too. now that sounds logical to me, and far easier to keep under control & far easier to keep maintained.


[edit: and by seperating the sites, would also aleviate some of the end-user requests and discussions from disappearing so quickly, and will increase the chances of those discussions being informative and actually discussed by the devs themselves..
73
Dave_L
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/23 15:05

  • Dave_L

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2277

  • Since: 2003/11/7


I've been thinking about the proposal for an End Users' Team since sailjapan first introduced it.

My conclusion is that vaughan is right. We're all end users.

The direction we're heading in is to make XOOPS a truly open-source project.

Yes, there will be teams that focus on specific items: core development, module development, support sites and so on. But these teams will conduct their business openly, and they will be open to input from non-members. If a XOOPS "end user" sees a problem, he can bring it to the attention of people who can address it.

What if you post an idea and it's ignored or rejected? That's always a possibility when there are a large number of people involved in a project. But you can keep trying, and enlist other people to help communicate your viewpoint.

What if I'm wrong? Well, the organizational structure currently being developed isn't carved in stone. If there are needs that aren't being met, the organization can be changed to meet those needs.
74
sailjapan
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

vaughan wrote:
Quote:
y not a place for the end-user on sourceforge?


Because source forge is patently not designed for mere mortals. It's a dev tool. You're a dev if your sig is anything to go by, and I wouldn't expect you to understand.

What's your problem with this end-user's group idea, vaughan? If you don't like it, ignore it. What's the harm in letting some folk with a different viewpoint of XOOPS have their space here too?

Seems to me that we wouldn't be asking if we hated XOOPS, and just because you devs intimidate us (not in a threatening way, but as in "how the hell do I make this guy understand that I don't understand "xxxxx" without my feeling like a total pratt?") doesn't mean that we should just give up with the whole project.

It's very possible that one of our number knows enough to talk on with a dev at their level (or maybe he just doesn't give a monkeys if he's made to look stupid).

Mate, the tone of your posts is exactly the reason most end users who walk away from XOOPS, walk away.

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.
75
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

David_L
Vaughn
Tim aka Tom
JMorris

I believe from the current information gathered from these forums you have all voted to nix the idea or request for a end-user forum.

That is fine if that is what the vote is.

I was in error when I was going under the assumption noone was listening. They were and they said no.

It was a matter of mis-communications.

I won't ask again.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
76
kc0maz
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/23 15:19

  • kc0maz

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 216

  • Since: 2005/4/18


chas2 said:
Quote:
As you well know no one likes to search and dig thru forums for days and weeks to install a module or any program because they expect it to run out of the box with some slight tweaks of css or GOOD changes in the code, I don't think you expect your users to have a difficult time developing with xoops...


Posted here:

vaughan said:
Quote:
like i say, there's too many forums, nobody knows where to post. information is scattered all over the place etc.


Would you like to see the forums & threads streamlined?

After reading and filtering discussions here and on sourceforge. I sense a real disconnect between the developers and the users. The users feel they are talking, but no one is listening. The developers are trying to get something going, but get bogged down in administrative tasks. The moderators are trying to do their job, however, they have administrators / developers putting up road blocks. So far what I have read, it is US vs. Them vs. Them

IMHO, there are too few people on too many teams trying to do too many functions and too many people complaining, The users are frustrated with the continuous in fighting and fewer answers.

I recommend the following guidelines across the board.

1.One person can be on no more than one team, with the exception of representing their team on a council.

2.Each team respects the other teams' autonomy.

While I at first supported an End-users group or team, I am beginning to question the motivation behind such a move. Maybe a pool of end-users who are willing to work a short-term project might be a better move. Until the core management is made official, we should hold off on this idea.
Some dream of success, while others wake up and work for it.
--unknown
77
tom
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/23 15:51

  • tom

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1359

  • Since: 2002/9/21


Quote:
What's your problem with this end-user's group idea, vaughan? If you don't like it, ignore it. What's the harm in letting some folk with a different viewpoint of XOOPS have their space here too?


I don't see that he has a problem, in fact I think he has some darn good points, if he was to ignore it because he didn't agree then this could sway to a dictatorship is that what your wanting again?

The idea is two people, two sides have an opinion and they debate this in a civil way, thats all I see happening here.

Now I'll quote this bit again:

Quote:
What's the harm in letting some folk with a different viewpoint of XOOPS have their space here too?


Within that one sentence you became a hypocrite, he's having his viewpoint and you don't want to let him.

There are already too many forums here, why complicate things further, just adopt area's to cover new requests.

Quote:
Seems to me that we wouldn't be asking if we hated XOOPS, and just because you devs intimidate us (not in a threatening way, but as in "how the hell do I make this guy understand that I don't understand "xxxxx" without my feeling like a total pratt?") doesn't mean that we should just give up with the whole project.


I didn't see anyone claim you hated XOOPS, or that you should give up, could you please show me which parts of this thread claim that?

BS:
Quote:
I was in error


Agreed

Quote:
I believe from the current information gathered from these forums you have all voted to nix the idea or request for a end-user forum.


Are we voting? I see my name mentioned as voting? when did I do this?

Quote:
I was in error when I was going under the assumption noone was listening. They were and they said no.


Just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean they are not listening, it simply means what it says on the tin 'They don't agree', and as stated before, everyone is welcome to their own opinion.

Quote:
1.One person can be on no more than one team, with the exception of representing their team on a council.


Sounds good to me.
Kind Regards.
Tom

http://bassmanthemes.com
http://www.xoopslance.com
78
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

by kc0maz on 2007/6/23 10:19:22 -
While I at first supported an End-users group or team, I am beginning to question the motivation behind such a move. Maybe a pool of end-users who are willing to work a short-term project might be a better move. Until the 'core management is made official, we should hold off on this idea.
________________-

MY MOTIVATION is to know in advance if I am just spinning wheels and wasting time. If this objective cannot be achieved than I can add no value to this forum. ... BlueStocking

Resized Image

It is out of desperation people like myself setup their own websites in XOOPS name in order to become a part of the whole community without having to pledge allegiance to a particular team, or pick sides with a waring faction.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG
79
tom
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/23 16:07

  • tom

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1359

  • Since: 2002/9/21


Resized Image
Kind Regards.
Tom

http://bassmanthemes.com
http://www.xoopslance.com
80
JMorris
Re: [XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS End Users Team

  • 2007/6/23 16:13

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Quote:
BlueStocking wrote:

David_L
Vaughn
Tim aka Tom
JMorris

I believe from the current information gathered from these forums you have all voted to nix the idea or request for a end-user forum.


Vote? What vote? I casted no vote.

Quote:
kc0maz wrote:

I recommend the following guidelines across the board.

1.One person can be on no more than one team, with the exception of representing their team on a council.


How is that fair to those of us that are multitalented? My degree is in IT, so I volunteer on the Server Admin Team. I taught myself web design while I was in college, so I also volunteer on the Design Team. That rule would eliminate the ability to volunteer my skills in two major areas of XOOPS. I'm sorry, but I don't agree to this point. However, I would agree that members should only be Team Leader of 1 team, but are welcome to volunteer anywhere where their skills are useful.

Quote:
kc0maz wrote:

2.Each team respects the other teams' autonomy.


I agree 1000% here!
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.
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