xoops forums

kc0maz

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2007/7/5 22:31
kc0maz
kc0maz (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 216
Since: 2005/4/18
#61

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

From what I have read, I get two basic thoughts

1. adopt Xoopsinfo code of conduct

2. have the moderators enforce the current code of conduct.

Is this correct?
Some dream of success, while others wake up and work for it.
--unknown

BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/7/5 22:48
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#62

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Enforce current...

consistantly and equally applied.
Not left up to the moderator to make a judgement call.
It is either against the TOS or it is not.
If there is a question about it then it has not been stated clearly enough in the TOS.

is it profain - a simple yes/no.
is it against COMMUNITY STANDARDS.
IF so, someone will object and ask for it to be attended to, if not if conforms to THIS community standard.

Moderators do not SET THE STANDARD, they enforce the written rules of TOS.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

Catzwolf

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/7/6 3:49
Catzwolf
Catzwolf (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1392
Since: 2007/9/30
#63

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Quote:

kc0maz wrote:
I don't care what your opinion is, or that of the project council for that matter.


Mistake no: 1. As a member of this community who you are trying to enforce new legislation upon, you should care what I think or the project council for that matter. these new laws will affect me in some manner and I would like to have my opinion regarding them, just like everyone else would and to turn around and say you do not care about my opinion reminds me of the going on here a few months ago.

If you didn't care what this community thought in the first place, why post and ask the question or was it merely a token gesture? :)

Quote:

When they come to our web site, what are they going to see, profanity in every shape and form, childish personal attacks, and every type of illegal activity taking place or a professional style web site, with a professional quality product, with a world-class support system and with professional ethics? From what I have read in this forum and others, I am beginning to think this community would prefer the former.


I 100% agree with you and the fact remains this, which was doing this most of the time? The community or the people put in charge to police (Maybe not the best choice of wording) these forums?

As I have stated before and I will state it again, the root of the problem is not a few rowdy community members hell bent on causing trouble, it is in fact a lot worse than that.

When I stated that we should not resort to knee jerk reactions, I was sincere in my wording. Before you introduce any new rules/regulations that’s it is just not to please the public, but there are 100% solid reasons for doing so. The same goes for removing old ones too.

Quote:

This is not a knee-jerk reaction, This entire thread to understand how the community wants to be portrayed.


It is not how this community wants to be portrayed, it is more how this community should act or react to certain situations.

Ok, to let you understand. I am not sure how long you have been a member here at Xoops, but I have been here for nearly 6 years now (This in no way was to have been condescending in anyway possible) and I have seen many changes, some good and some not so good. But, there is one thing that has remained constant here at XOOPS (And many members will back me up on this) and that is the lies we have been told for over 4 years that change is about to take place and it never has.

Also, coupled with that, you have had a moderating team that believed that they had sole right to say what they wished, delete and edit post when they wished.

Now the community can take these at face value for so long before the natives start to become restless and this is what has happened here. You keep a lid on a boiling pan and it will explode in your face.

Quote:

@the community-What do you want? A code of conduct that the moderators will enforce, or an open, free for all, where anything goes forums?


Yes I agree that there should be a code of conduct for all concerned here at Xoops. But how do you target these new changes? Why are you changing them? What would be the consequences of introducing them? Are they in fact lawful? Or will they just end up causing more problems in the long run?

My personal opinion would be to wait a little longer before you decide on these new changes, as I do believe many of the problems you have spoken about will be corrected with the new changes and movement forward in other areas in the long run. You have only started in this position and I feel that you may be a little hasty with some changes.

You have mentioned the moderator roles and I do believe this is the first place that needs radical change first. Again, I believe you mentioned using some of the ones I posted not that long ago.

Another point I would like to add, You stated that the moderators will enforce these new rules, I would like to ask you this question, who will make the moderators follow these rules and the ones set aside for moderators?

I applaud you for taking the hard task at hand and taking the bull by the horns, but I also urge you to think very carefully about what you do next, you have the powers to calm the storm or storm up a hornets nest. I just urge you caution on this subject.

Good luck to you

ATB

Catz

sailjapan

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/7/6 4:13
sailjapan
sailjapan (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16
#64

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Quote:

Catzwolf wrote:
Quote:

kc0maz wrote:
I don't care what your opinion is, or that of the project council for that matter.


Mistake no: 1. As a member of this community who you are trying to enforce new legislation upon, you should care what I think or the project council for that matter. these new laws will affect me in some manner and I would like to have my opinion regarding them, just like everyone else would and to turn around and say you do not care about my opinion reminds me of the going on here a few months ago.

If you didn't care what this community thought in the first place, why post and ask the question or was it merely a token gesture? :)




I don't think that he means he doesn't care and will therefore ignore your opinion, I think that he means it doesn't matter to him what your opinions are. Feel free to make your suggestions what ever they are (which is why he opened the thread).
This thread is designed to open our ears to what the community thinks of the etiquette rules. kc0maz is not here to judge, just to gather opinion. His care is how the customers see XOOPS. If we (the community) want to be seen as a rude, ill disciplined crowd, then so be it. He'd obviously prefer the project to be taken seriously, so maybe he's just checking that that's what everyone else thinks.

That's my take on the phrase, anyway.

The rest of your post seems broadly in line with our concerns too, so I think we can rest assured that there are no major disputes going on here (at least). Our policy discussions and decisions will all be made open and publicly, so there will be opportunity to keep us in check if we get too full of ourselves.

Fear not Catz. We're on the same side.

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

Catzwolf

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/7/6 4:40
Catzwolf
Catzwolf (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1392
Since: 2007/9/30
#65

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Quote:

I don't think that he means he doesn't care and will therefore ignore your opinion, I think that he means it doesn't matter to him what your opinions are. Feel free to make your suggestions what ever they are (which is why he opened the thread).
This thread is designed to open our ears to what the community thinks of the etiquette rules. kc0maz is not here to judge, just to gather opinion. His care is how the customers see XOOPS. If we (the community) want to be seen as a rude, ill disciplined crowd, then so be it. He'd obviously prefer the project to be taken seriously, so maybe he's just checking that that's what everyone else thinks.


I was emphasizing the 'wording', how easily it could be misconstrued by the general public and turned against you. Having worked in retail for many years, it has come to light is that the 'customer’ opinion does matter and we must be seen 'caring and listening' to their point of view at all times. No the customer is not always right either, may I point out lol

Quote:

This thread is designed to open our ears to what the community thinks of the etiquette rules. kc0maz is not here to judge, just to gather opinion. His care is how the customers see XOOPS. If we (the community) want to be seen as a rude, ill disciplined crowd, then so be it. He'd obviously prefer the project to be taken seriously, so maybe he's just checking that that's what everyone else thinks.


Yes but keep in mind, this is not the first time that this community has been subjected to such a survey and their opinions ignored. To be taken seriously, we have to take this proposal all the way and execute it or we could find ourselves heading into another dark period in XOOPS history.

The fact is that it is not the community that needs to take itself seriously, it’s the people who are in charge that need to take their positions, the project and the community seriously first and make themselves seem ‘caring and listening’ and be seen to be doing something right.

The XOOPS project has lost a lot of good people over the last few years and if we are to attract them back into an environment that is friendly, productive and tolerant to all people, we have no hope for the future.

All I am asking is that you give serious thought to the changes you would like to introduce, double check them and triple check them first and if that means taking a little longer then so be it. There is a lot to digest over this factor : )

Please don’t get me wrong, this is not a criticism of kc0maz by any means and was never intended that way. I just hope that he gets the leeway to do what is required and given the time and support from everyone to do it.

ATB

Catz

Catzwolf

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/7/6 5:00
Catzwolf
Catzwolf (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1392
Since: 2007/9/30
#66

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Quote:

3) Keep the discussion on-topic, this is not a discussion about the moderators or moderator enforcement or non-enforcement. comments are welcome from the moderators if they believe a rule is enforceable or not enforceable or the wording is unclear.

Failure to comply will result in your post being deleted without warning or notice.

I have asked the moderators to apply the current code of conduct and the additional rules vigorously and with extreme prejudice. to this one thread.

If the thread gets too out of hand, the moderators will lock the thread for 24 hours, with or without notice, at their discretion.


I have to disagree with this statement here. I believe that if a topic has to be closed in this manner then someone has not been doing their job correctly.

If a topic starts to get on the wrong track it is easy to bring it back into line. All 'off topic' topics should be split into different topics and notice given in the old and new topics the reason why a topic was split. This should be done in a friendly pleasant manner and in a wording that will not incite further issues or problems. Normally if we had a decent forum, moderators would be able to pick the correct response (predefined) for each issue (vote to kick this forum for a decent one) and that then would prevent 'moderators using their own thus prevent further issues'.

When should a topic be closed?

The only time a topic should be closed is:
1. If it is an administrative posting only.
2. If the problem has been solved or a long period of inactivity in that topic.

A topic should never be closed or locked as a method of punishment or control. This only further issues and problems within a community.

When should a topic be deleted?

There are only certain circumstances that a topic or post should be deleted. In most cases for
1. Blatant Advertisement
2. Sexual or explicit material (XXX porn etc)
3. Racial

There should not be any real reason apart from the ones mentioned (and some more possibly) for deleting a topic or post. Moderators found deleting posts without proir reason should be removed from the pool of moderators.

In fact now I come to think about it, the correct method would not to be to delete the post, but remove the offending material and the moderator should give reason/details as to why, and then the topic locked.

ATB

Catz

sailjapan

Moderator
Posted on: 2007/7/6 6:15
sailjapan
sailjapan (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 1672
Since: 2005/11/16
#67

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Quote:

Catzwolf wrote:

The fact is that it is not the community that needs to take itself seriously, it’s the people who are in charge that need to take their positions, the project and the community seriously first and make themselves seem ‘caring and listening’ and be seen to be doing something right.


Ah, I see an interesting difference in opinion/understanding here.

The way I, and I think I speak for all the Coordination team here, see our position is that we are from and of the community. I don't think any one on this team sees our role as being 'in charge'. Our position as we see it is to keep a track of what it is that is concerning other members of this, the same community as we belong to, and making sure that these needs are heard and dealt with in as friendly and efficient a manner as we are able.

Your support and concerns are much appreciated, and that's not empty 'marketing talk', I mean it. If we can't muser that then we are obviously doing something wrong. It's good to see the generally positive tone of reasoned discussion here in this thread. Long may it continue

Crip
Never let a man who does not believe something can be done, talk to a man that is doing it.

BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/7/6 7:11
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#68

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review







When should a
topic be closed?

The only time a topic should be closed is:


1. If it is an administrative
posting only.

2. If the problem has been solved or a long period of inactivity in that
topic.



A topic should never be closed or locked as a method of punishment or
control. This only further issues and problems within a community.



When should a topic be deleted?



There are only certain circumstances that a topic or post should be
deleted. In most cases for

1. Blatant Advertisement

2. Sexual or explicit material (XXX porn etc)

3. Racial



There should not be any real reason apart from the ones mentioned (and
some more possibly) for deleting a topic or post. Moderators found
deleting posts without proir reason should be removed from the pool of
moderators.


A message from Your friend, THE
CATZ


Posted and approved by BS




https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

kc0maz

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2007/7/10 15:16
kc0maz
kc0maz (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 216
Since: 2005/4/18
#69

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

Time to start cleaning up my mess here.

Unless someone else has any more comments,


This thread may be closed
Some dream of success, while others wake up and work for it.
--unknown

BlueStocking

Home away from home
Posted on: 2007/7/10 17:07
BlueStocking
BlueStocking (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1191
Since: 2007/2/16
#70

Re: Terms of use and XOOPSiquette review

kc0maz - is the moderator that opened the thread.
The moderator that opens a thread will be the one to close it as I understand. No objections to closure.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG