xoops forums

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2015/5/11 7:57
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10779
Since: 2004/4/23
#21

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Quote:
Good to see that 5 letter word that begins with "C" around these parts again.

We all are very lucky to have Cesag in our community!

Quote:
Now theres another one called Culex, anyone see the "Danish Genius" lately?

He is very busy! But he is working on XOOPS whenever he can!
See his latest project he is working on: XoopsSecure
Support XOOPS => DONATE
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vamptrix

Theme Designer
Posted on: 2015/5/11 19:00
vamptrix
vamptrix (Show more)
Theme Designer
Posts: 424
Since: 2008/5/3 1
#22

Re: The future of XOOPS?

The big issue with XOOPS theming is that it's very complex to do so.
What do I mean with that? XOOPS is burdened with the past, a lot of modules that are used often are quite old and are built years ago, and present all of their data and layout into table structures. However, since more than 10 years ago, designers have moved away from tables and more into div's and fluid layouts.
Tables are great for displaying data, but for layouts they're really the worst thing you can imagine. And that's a huge issue if you want to design for XOOPS: you have to keep in mind that almost everything is tabular, and if you want to work around that, you're basicly forced to write custom templates for every module, and there are a lot of those around.
The big issue with this is that in many themes, many modules render badly or are very hard to customize. Another thing which hurts us is that there isn't a "straight coding guide/style guide", every module developer has his own style and way of working. What this means is that every module looks different and is hard to style.
On WordPress, you don't have this issue: it's a blog by nature but can be used as a CMS, and in general plugins style themselves to look "okay" or "good". We don't have that here. A module can be shown awesomely in 1 theme, but look horrible in another one. We basicly need 1 or 2 theme frameworks to which all modules are written, but it will be a huge task to rewrite everything to that new standard/framework. A lot of work has been done in xBootstrap, but there's still a lot to do there. I've been working for weeks on a port of Foundation to XOOPS and it's really staggering how much work you need to do to get things to look right. You can port it over to XOOPS easily, but making it look Okay is very hard.

Currently, for me, the biggest issue in theming is not that it is too hard, but that it is way too much work to support all of the modules. We need to port those over to Bootstrap (not in the themes, but in the modules themselves!), and should push for new modules to be based on bootstrap themselves too. That way it's going to be a lot easier to theme stuff: if module developers design their modules using default Bootstrap elements, we just need to modify those default elements. Right now every module does things their own way, which is bloody hard to override.

As for documentation and the status of that, I'm working with Mamba (Michael) to get things done there too, but the wiki on XOOPS has quite a few issues and doesn't allow image uploads so that's blocking our progress. We're looking into a solution for that now.
The idea that I have is to have a wiki that everybody can edit, but only focussing on English and to have a basic article ready about everything and expand later. But first, a good foundation to work on and we're ready to go a long way.

I'm also a fan of a redesign of the XOOPS website (the current design dates from 2009! already, it can use a few updates). But once again, the modules underneath need the real update... :P If you want to know what hard is, try to theme the forums. It's a big pain to do so!

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2015/5/12 12:30
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10779
Since: 2004/4/23
#23

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Quote:
If you want to know what hard is, try to theme the forums. It's a big pain to do so!

Bleekk is working currently on a theme for XOOPS German-speaking support, that also includes a theme for Forums (NewBB):

http://myxoops.xoopsthemes.com/modules/newbb/
Support XOOPS => DONATE
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Bleekk

Theme Designer
Posted on: 2015/5/12 13:00
Bleekk
Bleekk (Show more)
Theme Designer
Posts: 934
Since: 2002/12/14
#24

Re: The future of XOOPS?

I do not think that the module templates are the reason why it is so difficult to build really good looking themes.
In my opinion there are 3 main reasons:
1. hard coded html in the module code
2. xoops has really old forms, which means that they can not be used for bootstrap. Also you can not separate each form fileds from another. we should be able to use them in a much more flexible way
3. lack of standardization of xoops css classes

culex

Module Developer
Posted on: 2015/5/12 13:46
culex
culex (Show more)
Module Developer
Posts: 705
Since: 2004/9/23
#25

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Quote:
Now theres another one called Culex, anyone see the "Danish Genius" lately?


Culex is still hangin' on by the skin o' his teeth and someone's actually at times telling him he's also getting a thing or 2 done. But haven't seen the danish Genius lately though

Good to see your also around still xoobaru

p.s. All good things in life has 5 letters and begins with C (i'm sure Cesag agrees) hehe

xoobaru

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2015/5/12 14:47
xoobaru
xoobaru (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 494
Since: 2010/12/2
#26

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Now that is just

Crazy
^
C

|<-5->|

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2015/5/13 10:18
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10779
Since: 2004/4/23
#27

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Quote:
2. xoops has really old forms, which means that they can not be used for bootstrap. Also you can not separate each form fileds from another. we should be able to use them in a much more flexible way
3. lack of standardization of xoops css classes


Bleekk, very good points!

Can the UI/UX Team lead us to make it in next version of XOOPS much easier for you as designers?
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redheadedrod

Home away from home
Posted on: 2015/5/13 15:35
redheadedrod
redheadedrod (Show more)
Home away from home
Posts: 1296
Since: 2008/2/26
#28

Re: The future of XOOPS?

As I understand it there are plans to make Themes more generic and more like a module for 2.6. It would be great however if some of the theme makers get more involved with 2.6 to insure this happens. Would be nice to have the base 2.6 theme be reactive so it will look good on whatever device it is on and to insure it is as generic as possible.

Moving forward hopefully 2.6 will have a base that will more or less make it very simple to make modules look like the main theme and reduce the hard coding of CSS/HTML.

Rodney

xoobaru

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2015/5/13 17:38
xoobaru
xoobaru (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 494
Since: 2010/12/2
#29

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Hello RHR,

That captures the essence of this whole thread, and the desired direction very well.

Smarty V2 to V3 learning curve is another dimension that theme designers have on their plate, possibly affecting 2.57X vs 2.6 compatibility. According to two reports, V3 is said to be mostly backward compatible with V2 so for those who have worked consistently with V2, it is probably just an incremental adjustment.

Although I have 2.6 A3 up and running, I have not yet checked to see whether theme related content (including that of standard modules) were any different from that of 2.5.7X release.

xoobaru

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2015/5/13 22:23
xoobaru
xoobaru (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 494
Since: 2010/12/2
#30

Re: The future of XOOPS?

Quote:
Although I have 2.6 A3 up and running, I have not yet checked to see whether theme related content (including that of standard modules) were any different from that of 2.5.7X release.


What a difference. I need to spend some serious time under the 2.6 hood. I have been away for tooo long.