11
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status

Being a member of to many teams they do not accomplish ONE job well.

That has been my observation also.

My wiki guy/gal has so many irons in the fire I have to sit around and wait until time can be found to work on the wiki.

I would rather be WORKING on something productive than posting on this thread. So would alot of others, that is why they set up their own XOOPS related site. We can't seem to accomplish anything here because the ones in charge have to many other things they are also in charge of.

I like EVERYBODY on this board, they just wear to many hats to do a job well and get the Kudos they deserve for doing that job.

A another BS opinion.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

12
irmtfan
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:07

  • irmtfan

  • Module Developer

  • Posts: 3419

  • Since: 2003/12/7


i stick to the no leader opinion for moderating too.an obvious reason is it works fine until now so it should work in the future.
not every team here need a leader because the guidelines and basics for each team is far different.
a core team need a leader to make the final decision for the better code style what he think is better for the future of xoops.
but moderators just need to be in touch and do their job in a friendly manner.


Quote:

Just to avoid power abuse their should be a limit in the number of teams where you are member.

another good idea from you. i totally agreed. i think one team per person is more than enough in the current situation that XOOPS running and we should follow it!

13
vaughan
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:10

  • vaughan

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 680

  • Since: 2005/11/26


Quote:

You said nothing and did not close down a thread that was getting very nasty, but you got on to a guy that posted caps in his header.


well if it was left to me I would have closed the thread, like i did close many others. But after all the heartache I received from closing the other threads.. and the fact I was told not to, then i can't really be blamed for that can I.

Quote:

If a moderator had simply changed the caps and noted it, I would have had no problem with that. Being Vaughn, I expected you to offer an answer to the gentleman's question, in addition to giving him a reprimand.


if i remember the thread in question, i'm pretty sure i pointed him to the FAQ section, and i also informed him of how to add a custom block. I also informed him that the body tags should be removed from his html and that the existing body tag would be better added to theme.html? or am i on about a different instance?

Quote:

Being a moderator I expected these threads to not get out of hand, and have someone with the ability to respond when more than three people ask for a thread to be moved to another more private area. People have been run off because of bad moderating, in my opinion.


being a moderator I wanted to do everything I could do to prevent the falme-wars from starting, I wanted to remove the flame-wars, I wanted to edit the posts, and I wanted them totally gone because IMO they were not in the best interests of XOOPS and I was getting fed up of them.

BUT I was not allowed to, when i did edit posts I was accused of censorship (by some of the very same people who are now asking for a friendly forum), I was accused of abuse of power. when threads were moved to private areas, we were then accused of censorship & going against the Open-Source Spirit (again by some of the very same people who are now asking for the friendly atmosphere, in fact some of those very same people were the ones causing the flame-wars etc)

people haven't been run off by bad moderating, people were run off by being personally attacked, offensive emails being sent to them when they were trying to defend XOOPS and trying to remove or prevent the flaming and personal attacks, and various other reasons..

But bad moderating?? Well if us moderators HAD been alowed to do our jobs, then maybe there would have been NO flame-wars or personal attacks on the forum because we would have been ALLOWED to remove them!!


Quote:

Why do you feel it necessary to moderate under your own handle. Does it give more leverage?


because I don't see the need to have to hide behind a username. I am Myself, I am Vaughan aka m0nty. I don't make multiple usernames and pretend to be somebody else!! lately I have been coming round to the idea of hiding behind a moderator name just because of all the personal attacks that have been happening.. but IMO why should I? If we were allowed to moderate properly, then the management & community would have supported the moderators fully, but no, the personal attacks kept coming and we were powerless to stop it because we were accused of censorship & were not allowed to moderate properly.

does it give me more leverage? no. it is simply the reason i state above.

Quote:

A BlueStocking evaluation.
BTW: A moderator should be able to go back through the threads after a given length of time and prune worthless conversations that offered no constructive information, under guidelines, of course. (zero responses and such)


yes i agree and I wish I/we were allowed to.



and thanks for your honesty. i agree I would not win a popularity contest. i definitely wouldn't enter one, that's for certain.

14
Bender
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:12

  • Bender

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1899

  • Since: 2003/3/10


From experience ... i agree that doing too many things at the same time can prove to be counterproductive.


Just some comments:

- "hiding" behind a name like "moderator1" would be a no go for me. If someone wants to talk to me about a moderation he can just contact me. If he has to complain about an anonymous moderator ... he needs to be found first.
Do you really know many boards with anonymous mods?

- Teamleader yes or no? I think its not really mandatory though sometimes usefull. We worked well together without having a teamleader in that group for quite some time.
(not counting the time where people simply wanted to fight and stirr things up)


Quote:
If we were allowed to moderate properly, then the management & community would have supported the moderators fully, but no, the personal attacks kept coming and we were powerless to stop it because we were accused of censorship & were not allowed to moderate properly.


i second that. Whatever we tried at that time there were enough people to say its wrong to do it either way.
Sorry, this signature is experiencing technical difficulties. We will return you to the sheduled signature as soon as possible ...

15
davidl2
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:23

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


Like the old expression: "Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't".

Sometimes it's not easy to make the right decision - and unfortunately decisions made wrongly sometimes turn round and bite you in the bottom

16
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status

Quote:

and the fact I was told not to


First,
Who told a moderator they couldn't close a thread. You said you would but you didn't. Apparently, whoever told you that you could not close the thread didn't have a problem hiding behing your nick.

Quote:
if i remember the thread in question, i'm pretty sure i pointed him to the FAQ section, and i also informed him of how to add a custom block. I also informed him that the body tags should be removed from his html and that the existing body tag would be better added to theme.html? or am i on about a different instance?


Yes you are on a different instance, He had been a member since 2002 with 34 posts.
I went back and looked at his posting record (easy to do with click on profile and follow his posts) I was taken back that a person who was contributing to XOOPS with modules and bug fixes and got an answer I fixed the caps and am moving the thread to a more appropiate place. You'll find his post in the beginners corner.

POST IN QUESTION:
https://xoops.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=59335&forum=27&post_id=263542#forumpost263542
Quote:
vaughan
vaughan
Profile
Send Private Message to vaughan
Re: I Need Creative Help #4
Forum Moderator


Joined: 2005/11/26
From Derbyshire/UK
Posts: 393

i've moved this to a more apropriate forum because it isn't regarding XOOPS development itself, more of a personal development. Also Topic Title has been edited to remove CAPS!! *please don't use CAPS for topic titles, it's annoying.




MY OPINION, ... You as a moderator wasn't doing your job, Your doing this under your name gave me a false impression of what Vaughn is all about. Had you been working under moderator, then I would have know XOOPS management was the problem the moderator's wasn't doing their job in a very efficient way.

I THINK WE NEEDED TO KNOW moderators are responsible to someone other than the community as a whole.

Just another BS opinion.
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

17
hackbrill
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:35

  • hackbrill

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 283

  • Since: 2005/7/14


Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:
As a community member I would always like to see (1) forum moderator in the who's online sidebar when I come in. I would also like to see the forum moderator have a user name that designated that was this persons job. Other than that I don't need to know his/her name/nick


I think this is a good idea. I believe it would help disassociate an individual's personality with his role as moderator in the eyes of the community. In this way, a moderator would appear as a bot and it's hard to argue with a bot. On a side note, I don't think anyone was insinuating a moderator as "hiding behind a username."

I'm a newbie, and the very first important XOOPSers I became familiar with were the moderators, even before knowing the names of the developers.

Moderators are seen as direct representatives of the XOOPS project and they should should operate with extreme tact because their actions can and will cause irreparable harm to the XOOPS project.

18
kc0maz
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:44

  • kc0maz

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 216

  • Since: 2005/4/18


Quote:
just because i am a moderator does not mean i am not entitled to speak freely of my own personal regard, not everything i say is as a moderator.
moderators often do have opinions, and they should be allow to express those opinions like every other user. The moderator also needs to respect the opinions and comments of other users and not use their powers to remove any argument to their position Quote:
if i am moderating, you'd know i'm moderating. because we'd leave a note if posts were edited. or if i issue a warning in a topic ie. "please keep this discussion friendly & on topic" then i am speaking as a moderator.
Good idea. I might even go as far as to say that you need to mark your note or posting with a prefix of some kind to indicate you are acting as moderator (name) and not as user (name) Quote:
we have guidelines to follow, we have xoopsiquette. does any moderator act on their own behalf when dealing with members? no we don't.. we put it to a vote, and the majority vote gets the consensus. we only act on our own discretion when dealing with spam or other issues that aren't major ones..
As it should be. Maybe I missed something here, but maybe the results of the vote and any discussion should be posted for all to see. Quote:
if you question my decision as a moderator, feel free to message me privately to discuss it, if you feel the situation isn't resolved after taking up with the person concerned, by all means then contact another moderator etc.. failing that goto management team,
Maybe 'leader' is too strong of a term. I believe what is being sought is someone to deal with complaints of moderator abuse. Rather than complain to Moderator 'B' that Moderator 'A' doesn't like them. The fact that the moderators work as a team is great. it makes sure all the forums are moderated in the same way. and no one person can be blamed is some action that is taken. Maybe a more correct term is 'Manager' or 'Facilitator' Someone to make sure the moderators have everything they need get the job done, deal with any complaints, and maybe lead any discussions / voting. Just from doing some spot reading of all the forums I get the impression that some is not most people want to know:
  1. Who are the moderators?
  2. What are the rules? (xoopsiquette)
  3. How do I complain? or Who do I complain to?
We all know they are a few people out there that will jump straight to the management level and demand a moderator be removed because of the slightest oversight. Maybe some kind of documented complaint process, that is respected by the moderator and the management teams. I am not disagreeing with you completely, just a modified agreement. Just my two cents worth
Some dream of success, while others wake up and work for it.
--unknown

19
vaughan
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status
  • 2007/6/13 16:57

  • vaughan

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 680

  • Since: 2005/11/26


Quote:

BlueStocking wrote:
Quote:

and the fact I was told not to


First,
Who told a moderator they couldn't close a thread. You said you would but you didn't. Apparently, whoever told you that you could not close the thread didn't have a problem hiding behing your nick.

Quote:
Yes you are, He had been a member since 2002 with 34 posts.
I went back and looked at his posting record (easy to do with click on profile and follow his posts) I was taken back that a person who was contributing to XOOPS with modules and bug fixes and got an answer I fixed the caps and am moving the thread to a more appropiate place. You'll find his post in the beginners corner.

POST IN QUESTION:
Quote:
vaughan
vaughan
Profile
Send Private Message to vaughan
Re: I Need Creative Help #4
Forum Moderator

Joined: 2005/11/26
From Derbyshire/UK
Posts: 393

i've moved this to a more apropriate forum because it isn't regarding XOOPS development itself, more of a personal development. Also Topic Title has been edited to remove CAPS!! *please don't use CAPS for topic titles, it's annoying.




MY OPINION, ... You as a moderator wasn't doing your job, Your doing this under your name gave me a false impression of what Vaughn is all about. Had you been working under moderator, then I would have know XOOPS management was the problem the moderator's wasn't doing their job in a very efficient way.




with regards to the thread i said i would close.. can you give me a link to it? i remember closing 1 thread, and another thread was opened asking why the closed thread was closed.. lol i remember closing others, but i also remember closing threads that were then to be reopened again by the management because maybe someone complained that it had been closed.. i don't know.


as a moderator, i did my job, i moved the topic to a more apropriate forum & removed the CAPS.

as a mod/user i didn't give advice because there were already users including yourself helping & offering advice.

I couldn't offer him any other advice that was different than what was already given, I trusted that the advice given was adequate enough.

on a side note. sometimes we may not know an answer to someones question, therefore we can't give advice. and in this case, there were a number of users giving advice, so my advice wasn't needed as i would have only suggested the same as what was given.

the moderator team answered to the management!!

and as i've already said to DJ in the moderator forum in response to him editing some of my posts..

for the moderators team to function correctly, we have to know that we have the support & backing of the management, and that if the moderators close threads, we close them for a reason & the management should support us in that matter. if they feel we are wrong then it should be discussed first, instead of reopening threads etc and unbanning members without consulting us beforehand.


if you think as users you were frustrated!! then you have absolutely no idea how frustrated we were as moderators!!

20
BlueStocking
Re: [XoopsTeam] report - Forum Moderator - status

This pointed out to me you had the ability and the means to move a post, you had the ability and the means to edit a post.

Your choice of applying that power was not in the best interest of XOOPS.

IF NOBODY COMPLAINS then NOTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.

IF moderators are asked by more than one community member to move a posting thread or make it accessable to only those registered members who are disscussing the issue then that NEEDS to be acted upon.

IF a personal name is being bantered about then that PERSONAL NAME could be edited out of the text of the offending post.

My OPINION ONLY.

BS
https://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

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