11
JMorris
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 2:05

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


Quote:

Mamba wrote:
[rant on]

But you ARE competing!!!!!!! James, I love what you're doing for the XOOPS community, but your Website IS competing with http://www.xoops.org, whether you like it or not, and whether you acknowledge it or not.


I see it as a needed contribution to the community that cannot be implemented on xoops.org domains due to the plans for the site restructuring. I see it as a way to tie all areas of XOOPS together in one, easy to use interface.

Quote:

Mamba wrote:

I am not sure what is going on, but with the recent opening of http://helpxoops.info/ by Carnuke, this is a very disturbing trend. It looks like there is some political battle going on with somebody not letting you make changes to the http://www.xoops.org website, and therefore you're feel being forced to open your own Websites.


Not everything is appropriate for a xoops.org site. As server admin, I sure as h3ll wouldn't want a site hosted on these servers with experimental modules or a site that constantly fetches rss feeds from other sites. Stop and think about it for a second. xoops.org isn't a playground. We have to keep things in perspective and use our resources in the best way possible.

Quote:

Mamba wrote:

Otherwise, why do it? From my experience people open their own Websites because:

a) they want to make money
b) their ego drives them to get more exposure with their "own" Website
c) they don't see like they have the opportunity to implement their ideas on the main Website because the "powers to be" don't let them
d) there is a disagreement and they feel they have to leave and start something new
e) ????


a) ROFLMAO! In 3 months, I made less than $5 from Adsense on that site. I finally removed the ads because that site is a contribution to the community, not a money maker. I have plenty of other sites to make a living off of. If the site starts costing me money to run, I'll either put up a small number of relevant text-link-ads or a donation button.

b) Hey, I'll admit, I've got an ego and I like to get it stroked, but that's not what XOOPSinfo is about. If it was, I wouldn't be putting the decisions in the hands of the community.

c) It's not that the powers that be don't let me. As a server admin, I have full access to everything on these servers. But I'm not selfish enough to push my own agenda and I sure as h3ll am not going to betray the trust of the community. I have to look at the big picture, not just a few pixels.

d) Nope, no disagreement. In fact, I've been met with mostly support.

e) See this post which explains the reasoning behind such efforts.

Quote:

Mamba wrote:

I am sure you won't like to hear it, but yours and Carnuke's new Websites are fragmenting the XOOPS community and ARE counterproductive to the http://www.xoops.org Website.


To be completely honest, I expected criticism. If you're not being criticized, you're not doing much.

Quote:

Mamba wrote:

Our focus should be on fixing the http://www.xoops.org Website and NOT on creating 10 other Websites dealing with XOOPS issues.


I'm overseeing the server migration so that the new site structure will be fast, reliable, and secure. Some of xoops.org's biggest issues have been because the sites are not hosted on an appropriate platform that is capable of meeting the demands of the xoops.org sites.

XOOPSinfo.com and HelpXOOPS.info deal with XOOPS issues, but as stated above, these are issues that should not be dealt with on the xoops.org servers or domains.

Quote:

Mamba wrote:

What you guys are doing is giving the impression to others that the XOOPS ship is sinking and everybody is trying to leave it and establish their own XOOPS Website before it's too late . Just think about it....

As a "XOOPS user" I do NOT need another two Websites. What I need is fixed and updated http://www.xoops.org Website that provides me with all the XOOPS information that I need, a "one-stop shopping" concept.


I have thought about this extensively. After reading a lot of discussion about the site restructuring, I came to the conclusion that the new site structure was appropriate and well thought out, but didn't answer every request. This is natural and can be expected. It's impossible to give every user exactly what they want.

My motivation behind XOOPSinfo.com is to fill in a gap that is not practical for xoops.org. Pure and simple.

Sure, some will approve of this and some will disapprove of this. That's fine. "You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time." My goal is to provide a resource that is not addressed currently or in the site restructuring. I'm donating this resource without regard to personal gain because I feel it is for the community, by the community.

Mamba,

I view you as a wise and trusted member. I would hope you would understand the Open Source spirit embodied by the efforts that are currently being developed.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

12
Mamba
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 7:06

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


Quote:

snow77 wrote:
Mamba, show us your version of the roadmap for a better XOOPS if you think this is wrong.


What does it have to with a roadmap? We have a roadmap, let's just execute on this and make it happen.

My issue is with the fragmentation of the of the community and XOOPS resources, instead of pulling all the stuff together.
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13
Mamba
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 7:17

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


skenow wrote:
Quote:

I look at the contribution to this thread by the likes of JMorris, Carnuke and Rabideau, and then Mambo...


I wish that you would judge the book by the content and not by its cover. Are you trying to say that you won't consider anything being said by somebody who is not listed as admin on XOOPS site, or has less that XXX messages posted on http://www.xoops.org?

As I said, I do appreciate very much all the contributions made my JMorris or Carnuke, but I hope, you don't think that it makes them Gods, i.e. they can't make mistakes in judgment.

Quote:

There are many facets to a product such as Xoops, and as was read somewhere in all this was "domain names don't matter." In terms of 'dividing' the community, I don't agree. The more sites that mention XOOPS only multiplies the results in search engines and raises the core site higher in the rankings.


What is our goal here? Having higher ranking or having http://www.xoops.org Website as the best resource for XOOPS users? XOOPS users have been complaining for months with the lack of progress on redesigning the XOOPS Website. Let's do something about it, instead of spending our resources on some new Websites that compete with http://www.xoops.org
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14
Mamba
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 8:15

  • Mamba

  • Moderator

  • Posts: 11409

  • Since: 2004/4/23


Quote:

JMorris wrote:
I see it as a needed contribution to the community that cannot be implemented on xoops.org domains due to the plans for the site restructuring. I see it as a way to tie all areas of XOOPS together in one, easy to use interface.

Not everything is appropriate for a xoops.org site. As server admin, I sure as h3ll wouldn't want a site hosted on these servers with experimental modules or a site that constantly fetches rss feeds from other sites. Stop and think about it for a second. xoops.org isn't a playground. We have to keep things in perspective and use our resources in the best way possible.


Our goal should be to make http://www.xoops.org the best XOOPS Website possible for XOOPS users. If you see you current Website as a "playground" to test your ideas, which will be later on incorporated into XOOPS main site, then let's state so on the Website, and ask people for feedback. Right now you're asking for active content contributions, while we should be asking for contributions to http://www.xoops.org



Quote:

I'm overseeing the server migration so that the new site structure will be fast, reliable, and secure. Some of xoops.org's biggest issues have been because the sites are not hosted on an appropriate platform that is capable of meeting the demands of the xoops.org sites.

XOOPSinfo.com and HelpXOOPS.info deal with XOOPS issues, but as stated above, these are issues that should not be dealt with on the xoops.org servers or domains.

I have thought about this extensively. After reading a lot of discussion about the site restructuring, I came to the conclusion that the new site structure was appropriate and well thought out, but didn't answer every request. This is natural and can be expected. It's impossible to give every user exactly what they want.

My motivation behind XOOPSinfo.com is to fill in a gap that is not practical for xoops.org. Pure and simple.


If this would be the case, I wouldn't have any problems. But going to your Website, or to http://helpxoops.info, it shows a lot of duplicated content, that is competing with http://www.xoops.org

If you are talking about "filling a gap", can you define this gap?

In your original statement you say:

Quote:
Until now, XOOPSinfo has pretty much been a one-man-show. I would like to move away from this model and make XOOPSinfo a true community resource. The spirit behind this site was and still is to make it as simple as possible for members to find information.


Well, I am lost because it doesn't say that this is a "playground" to test different ideas that would benefit the main XOOPS Website, but instead it says that the goal is to have it as a "true community resource", which in my mind is competing with http://www.xoops.org

Can you see where my concerns are coming from?
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15
MadFish
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 8:24

  • MadFish

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1056

  • Since: 2003/9/27


I think maybe he just wants to get some stuff done. The ways xoops.org works at the moment, it isn't easy for someone who has an idea to get something changed or implemented here. So the quickest (and perhaps, the only) way to progress some things is to build your own chicken and see if it flies.

Our (admittedly limited) experience to date suggests that it's a lot easier to get things changed or added to xoops.org when you're delivering a finished product rather than an idea that someone else has to implement.

I'd love to see xoops.org as the central repository for finished products but currently it just isn't working that way. Something we need to find a solution to. Maybe this site will come up with some ways of achiving that that xoops.org can make use of.

16
JMorris
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 11:27

  • JMorris

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 2722

  • Since: 2004/4/11


@MadFish,

Yep, that's about the size of it.

@Mamba,

In spite of my Moderator rank, I cannot do what is being done with XOOPSinfo on xoops.org, for whatever reason.

XOOPSinfo is an effort to give back to the community. It is an effort to make it simpler for users to find information that is not easily found on xoops.org in its current state and in it's proposed state.

Whether or not XOOPSinfo eventually gets "assimilated" into xoops.org or not is not my decision.

In a nutshell... What is being done on XOOPSinfo and HelpXOOPS cannot be done on XOOPS.org but is needed by the community; therefore, members of the community are doing something about it instead of griping about the need and waiting for someone else to do it.

P.S. XOOPSinfo is not going to be a support site. I thought I had made that clear. It is going to be a "Portal" like my.yahoo.com or msn.com.

I understand where you are coming from, Mamba, and I do respect your concerns. However, it is not possible for the community to do the work being done at XOOPSinfo on xoops.org.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Stupidity is not a crime. Therefore, you are free to go.

17
davidl2
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 11:54

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


Giba - from what I understand of what James is doing with his site, it will be compiling information from many sources via RSS and other means.... so copying this information via RSS to Xoops.org would be doing the same thing again.

Rather like having 4 wheels on a 3 wheeled car.

James's site will allow people to read a wide variety of information and news from one place - on a site dedicated for this purpose.

Kind of like being able to read a newspaper, without having to turn pages for adverts.

18
skenow
Re: [XOOPSinfo.com] A call for Community Collaboration
  • 2007/3/13 23:42

  • skenow

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 993

  • Since: 2004/11/17


Quote:

Mamba wrote:
I wish that you would judge the book by the content and not by its cover. Are you trying to say that you won't consider anything being said by somebody who is not listed as admin on XOOPS site, or has less that XXX messages posted on http://www.xoops.org?


I do read the content of the posts - what I look for is someone who says "I will ..." instead of "You should ..."

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