JMorris wrote:

I hope we can return to that friendly, fun, and helpful atmosphere, but in a much better environment. I think we are well on our way, but there is still a lot of work left to be done.

If by "here" you mean the entity that is XOOPS, then yes.

JMorris wrote:

After all, isn't the most important thing we are all here for the code?

JMorris wrote:
Well, the merge they are talking about IS 2.4. It's just that there have been delays. Mainly, Skalpa was ill.

Well, if this is anyone's "fault" it is mine. Basically, I considered this news hearsay since it was told to me by Skalpa in an IM conversation. The community kept asking for news and none came, so I took it upon myself to get news from Skalpa by contacting him directly.

Should it have been announced as news? I don't think so because there is no code released to back it up right now. The Core Dev Team is getting back to basics. That being code. Their code will be doing the talking for them.

Well, I would agree with you here. Communication does need work, but I really don't think this community understands *how* things should be communicated.

You see, this project started out as a fork of another project. In its early days, it was small and the developers could communicate directly with the community. Then, it was a "mini-project" that had a small community of users and developers.

Now, this project is all grown up and is no longer a "mini-project". However, we still have a very small number of developers. 3 Core Developers to be exact. There is absolutely no way that these 3 people can realistically participate in the "community" discussions and still meet the demands of developing XOOPS, while still having lives.

Think about it for a second... Can you discuss things with the lead developer of RedHat Linux? No, you can't. Why? The project is too big for this to be realistic.

Instead, you have a team of experienced support personnel who act as an interface between the developers and the community. These members watch the code, interpret the project progress, and report the progress back to the community. Bug reports are submitted through the appropriate channels, and when something comes up in the community that is not appropriately reported through the right channels, senior members of the community make sure things are reported correctly.

What people here don't seem to understand is XOOPS is not the project it was 2, 3, 4 years ago. It is waaaaaay bigger.

Yes, it would have been nice for the Core Developers to tell people this, but considering they have been busy with completely rebuilding XOOPS from the ground up, well, I personally can't be mad at them for not participating in the mess that this site has become lately.

Yes, a lot of changes are needed. This includes a change in attitude and expectations for us all. We have to stop thinking and acting like a small project and start thinking on a larger scale.

A lot is being done to facilitate this, and I wish this could all be done out in the open, but unfortunately, the current environment of this site doesn't allow this. However, this will change VERY soon.

This site, as it exists now, will soon be archived and replaced by 3 new sites that are much more professional, much more appropriate for a large Open Source Project, and, with regards to the community aspects of the project, much better suited to collaboration.

I'm not talking false promises here. If you take a minute to step back from the "drama" and look at what is going on, you will see the progress being made all around.

* A call to action for the new repository
* The XOOPS Wiki was launched
* XOOPS Docs was launched
* The new servers were publicly tested
* The cross reference of the 2.0.16 core was published
* The "Starting a New XOOPS Site" Case Study was published

There is even more, but I can't remember it all.

The point is, the community IS being heard and work is being done. In fact, the rate of progress has actually increased.

Now, on a different note, there has been a LOT of negativity around here lately. I have to be honest and admit that I've had more than my part in this. For that, I am sincerely sorry. I have no excuse. I lost my temper with those who I felt were attacking something I'm a firm believer in. I should have taken a step back and "heard" what was being said, instead of "how" it was being said. I don't agree with many of the points made, but I should have disagreed in a more appropriate way.

I cannot go back and change what I have done, but I can change how I behave. I hope that will be enough to be helpful here.

This is an overly long-winded post and I apologize for that, but the point I'm trying to get across here is this...

Hang in there just a little longer and much of what you have been asking for will become a reality.