Re: XOOPS chat sitePardon, why "chat site"?
Re: XOOPS chat siteIf you have ever managed an Aardvark topsites list, you know all about "Sohbet", they made my life hell, it was a full time job deleting them.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sohbet+spam&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Yes I created this account specifically to let xoopsers know about sohbet, they are the biggest spammers in Turkey! I wouldn't dare use my real account to post this lol. Xoops you have a rat in your ranks!
Re: XOOPS chat site"Sohbet" means in Turkish "Chat". There could be hundreds of Websites with a name that includes the word "Chat".
Do you see any spam activities coming from or involving "Balimsohbet"?
We definitely do not support spamming!
Re: XOOPS chat siteSure, one of many
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://blogger.xs4all.nl/kixkix/archive/2007/04/02/196873.aspx&ei=aD1FTOm4NpPKcaSWnNMP&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCoQ7gEwBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsohbetcide.com%2Bspam%26hl%3Den
have a bit of a scroll and look at the comments, note the other sohbet sites, coincidence, I think not! You have to understand sohbet made my life hell, every website I have now blocks anything with the word sohbet! Please don't take my word for it, google is a wonderful tool.
Your very welcome ;o)
Re: XOOPS chat site@spamsux
i don't know what your point is, Heyula is only showing his last site/theme creation and is definitely NOT spamming it is only a showcase of what you can do with Xoops
And he is not the owner of this website
Re: XOOPS chat siteSince this site is using Inspire 7, you should not violate the license of the theme. The theme is licensed under CC 3.0-BY-SA, please refer to the details here: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
You shall not remove the credit of the author in the footer of the theme.
Re: XOOPS chat siteI think this is a nice theme and it's a shame the user removed your credit. However, as far as I know all Xoops themes are considered to be derivative works (like modules) so the only enforceable licence is the GPL.
The GPL doesn't allow you to place restrictions on how someone modifies the theme.
There was an interesting article on Wordpress.org about it last year.
http://wordpress.org/news/2009/07/themes-are-gpl-too/
Re: XOOPS chat siteI agree... XOOPS is an open source project... Everything should be GPL... It's not very fair that modules HAVE to be GPL and theme developers think they can just pick any license... A module may have images and css/html too... Where is the difference?
Re: XOOPS chat siteNo comments..
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
No comments..
Re: XOOPS chat siteI agree it is disappointing that the credit was removed, but the theme designer has distributed this theme under an innapropriate licence.
You can't copyright the design of a theme that integrates with a GPL CMS, because the two concepts are mutually exclusive.
Re: XOOPS chat siteI think we need some clarifications on the theme license of XOOPS.
1. Does XOOPS themes have to be GPL?
2. If yes to the above question, to what extent does GPL apply? I mean does theme.html have to be GPL? What about style.css and images/javascripts.
These two questions may have significant implications on theme designers. First of all, in the field of design, CC is much more popular than GPL. Many designs are licensed under CC. If the XOOPS theme shall be GPL, then we cannot port any of the CC-licensed designs to XOOPS.
Second, what about commercial themes? This applies to modules too. If themes/modules have to be GPL, then the commercial applications are very limited. I can buy a commercial theme and then resell it! Then what's the meaning of selling the theme at first anyway?
I hope we can have an official explanations. I would take proper actions to respect the copyright policies of XOOPS.
Re: XOOPS chat siteI agree. If licences used are different from the main licence of Xoops then we need to clarify exactely what you can or cannot do with these licenses.
I do think however this list of licenses should be limited as much as possible.
At Creative commons you can specify very closely what kind you need in a pretty ok short list
Creative Commons choose
Re: XOOPS chat siteI still fail to see the difference between a module and a theme designed for XOOPS... If a theme can use a different licence what prevents module developers from using the same license?... As I said earlier, we use php, css, html and images in modules, similar to themes...
Where is the difference?
We need to resolve this!
Re: XOOPS chat siteI think we cannot protect our copyrights as designers whatever the licences used.
the problem is complicated more than we think:
- someones customize a little the theme and adopt it for their clients and they delete designers copyrights.
- someones put their own copyrights on the theme
and someones make little changes to the theme and publish it as it was their own work.
and much much more.
for this reason I think we can never protect anything in opensource. also we cannot know who are using our work, especially that themes can be easy renamed and modules can be cloned or we can change its titles.
so let's be more cool, and see the positive side : we do a big progress in design or in development , we help to make xoops more known and flexible by adding free exciting designs or interesting modules, we prove that we can do great things and we are successfull persons or companies.
I understand Insraq very very well ,your reward dear insraq that you are the original, the most known, and others still the copy.
if they arrive to make like your themes or like any developer's module, it means you are impacting their work positivly and do a big progress in their life, witch so good. and if no, it means they still need your great work and you still the designer number 1.
by the way , and it isnt a joke, from few days I got an email from someone : he asking me to delete maitscoportal theme form my website asap. the reason ? he owns a company in Egypt and he is using the theme in his website, and he thinks that I imitate his design,I ask him to google maitscoportal and see the results, also to provide me one psd file,or to let his designer explain me one code in css, so he understand that the design is for free but his webmaster selling it for him after making few change to the theme in the sliding photos and the logo.
I think sometimes it's necessary to those who are using xoops themes in commercial websites to do a small donations for designers or for free module developers, it isnt a begging it's a way to say thank you, keep making good things, keep xoops in the top, keep offering for us free great things by using your theme or your module we resumed lot of time to get a good website.
this is my own opinion but it isnt mean that I agree to remove any copyrights.
Re: XOOPS chat siteAfter whole day's research, I have a deeper understanding of this. From the license cases of WordPress, Joomla and Drupal, themes are considered as derivative works of the CMS itself and therefore bounded by GPL: The theme files in PHP are required to be GPL, while CSS/JS/images do not have such requirement. For a theme in XOOPS, I think theme.html shall be GPL but other CSS/JS/images may not be.
@Runeher:
For templates in modules, the HTML file need to be GPL while CSS/JS/images might not be.
@mariane:
I agree. Even though I require my credit to be preserved in the footer, only some people decide to do that. I see lots of people simply remove the credit. Actually, what I want to know is whether my requirement of preserving the credit violates the license of XOOPS.Of course, people can decide not to obey my requirement and remove it. There is really nothing I can do.
Another question is about selling themes of XOOPS(as I mentioned in the previous comment). Although theoretically I can sell themes under GPL, actually, the selling is meaningless: the buyer can simply resell the theme legally. Then what's the point of selling it in the first place?
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
we cannot port any of the CC-licensed designs to XOOPS
Then what's the meaning of selling the theme at first anyway?
Re: XOOPS chat siteFor those interested, here are some links to other Open Source CMS project where they discuss the issue of Themes and GPL:
WordPress
Drupal
Joomla
There is also a good article analyzing in detail why WordPress theme is a derivative work, and therefore should be released under GPL.
We've always supported that view that XOOPS themes should be release as GPL.
As mentioned in the links above, elements like images, CSS or JavaScript don't have to be released under GPL, as they are independent entities.
Of course, we as a community, support themes being released as whole under GPL (incl. images/CSS/JavaScript). This way the user doesn't have to think twice what is and what is not modifiable, and we can keep everything consistent. This is the same stand as WordPress has.
Regarding selling Themes (or modules), we always encouraged it (assuming they are GPL), and I hope that XOOPS developers/designers could make living doing it. There is nothing better than doing something that you love and being paid for it 
Quote:
Actually, what I want to know is whether my requirement of preserving the credit violates the license of XOOPS.
If themes/modules have to be GPL, then the commercial applications are very limited. I can buy a commercial theme and then resell it! Then what's the meaning of selling the theme at first anyway?
Re: XOOPS chat siteI totally agree with Mamba and Peekay... We should use GPL for everything... and as he points out, XOOPS is a fairly small community (yet) compared to other CMS's so any stealing and reselling of either a theme or a module would not be very appreciated here...
Re: XOOPS chat siteThanks for the clarification. I will switch theme licenses to GPL 2.0.
Re: XOOPS chat siteBtw! Nice site Heyula, and nice theme insraq... w/wo signature... :)
Re: XOOPS chat siteheyula was one of thousand xoopers who used the theme without the original credits of the designer. but the discussion was about how to respect the designers or developpers rights.
you're right Runeher , heyula did a nice changes, but because he is a designer and he represent the turkish community as I know, he must be the first person charged to respect these credits and to defend in his community any attempt from any user to steal or ignore copyrights.
Re: XOOPS chat siteI've written my answer in the Turkish language..
ben bu temanın theme.html sinden style.css'ne kadar her yerini sıfırdan tekrar yaptım.bütün grafiklerini tek tek gene sıfırdan yaptım.
ama temanın orjinali Inspire 7 teması olduğu için yapımcısının adını xoops.org da belirttim.
benim yaptığım bütün çalışmalarda bir şeyleri ihlal ettiğimi söylüyorsunuz.Sorarım size hangi temada tama yapımcısının link var sanki.
ben xoops ile neler yapıldığını göstermek için bu sunumları gönderiyorum.eğer bunlar sıkıntı oluşturuyorsa bir daha göndermicem.teşekkür ederim.
Re: XOOPS chat siteI really dislike the fact that you should release your themes under the GPL. Sometimes you as designer are forced to pick another license (when you port something or when you use some scripts that are protected under a special license or stuff).
Those js/html/php files aren't directly related to XOOPS nor the theme itself - the theme must be modified to let those files work.
That can give problems as for example when you include a flash player into a module, you should technicly seen release that code of it under the GPL too, while you might be using a player that is not compatible with the GPL license.
These are very dangerous restrictions (although sometimes required): for example a lightbox script can be released under a Creative Commons license, which makes it impossible to be bundled with a xoops theme for example unless you're going to use several licenses.
Licenses like the GPL are made to let others modify your code, but personally as a designer, I think you're a lot better of with a Creative Commons license. That way you can at least get some credit for your hard work on which you can have spent days of hard work. It's kinda rude and really offending to the creators of their work to see what people do with their hard work and steal the credit, not even giving them a small link to their website.
That's why I'm against the GPL: I don't mind giving the sourcecode away and keeping a copyleft, but I do mind the fact that you're in no way required to give credit to the designer/creator.
Any of my themes are dual licensed under the GPL as well as the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License for the css/js and images.
Kevin
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
I've written my answer in the Turkish language..
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
I really dislike the fact that you should release your themes under the GPL. Sometimes you as designer are forced to pick another license (when you port something or when you use some scripts that are protected under a special license or stuff).
Licenses like the GPL are made to let others modify your code, but personally as a designer, I think you're a lot better of with a Creative Commons license.
That way you can at least get some credit for your hard work on which you can have spent days of hard work. It's kinda rude and really offending to the creators of their work to see what people do with their hard work and steal the credit, not even giving them a small link to their website.
). Think about it this way - the developer spends 5 hours writing code, and the designer spends 5 hours creating an image, so both spent the same amount of time. Why should there be a difference in the license/attribution, if both "creations" are part of the same GPL-based project, and both spent the same number of hours creating it? Why should the designer be treated better? Re: XOOPS chat siteIn any case, and as Mariane said, many sites use the themes with the signature stripped, but only the those posted in YAX get a freaking hellstorm by designers. How many cool sites would be put on display (with it stripped) if it was ok? Probably many, many more...
Again, modules are GPL (all of them) Open Source and GPL, why should themes be treated different?
Re: XOOPS chat siteMamba, you're right on quite a few lines, but it simply isn't always possible. I don't hate the GPL, but I don't like it either.
For example, when you watch at most XOOPS sites, you see a link to the xoops website, you see the metatags. You don't see that on a theme - the most you see on most themes is a small designed by link. Quite different, as those are easier to remove - a lot easier then removing or changing those meta tags if you don't know where they are.
Re: XOOPS chat siteI agree with Mamba. Licenses should not be mixed. All components used by the main application should fall under the applications license. This mean all modules, themes, graphics, etc is same license as Xoops.
I do understand that in some cases an extra ordinary amount of work go into some module, theme, graphics and the creator would like some credit for this (could be money or anything else).
Why not show the module or theme an example on their website and only available through mailed download (after promised to keep urls intact, makin donation etc) ?
I know this is a little outside the basic idea of Xoops but at least this would be a compromis between using other license and keeping all licenses under xoops ?
Re: XOOPS chat site@ vamptrix
Quote:
when you include a flash player into a module, you should technicly seen release that code of it under the GPL too
...on which you can have spent days of hard work.
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
Why not show the module or theme an example on their website and only available through mailed download (after promised to keep urls intact, makin donation etc) ?
Re: XOOPS chat siteOk just brainstorming a little, I see this idea was not the best :-S.
But there still seem to be a little confusion about licensing and using downloaded themes, scripts and modules.
Modules have a creditation in the admin section where you can see who made it, but I understand theme developers dont really have this option.
Would preserving "Theme.: developed by someone 2010" in the meta/comments be an answer ?
Re: XOOPS chat siteCulex, that would be a nice idea. Maybe we should make a theme page on it's own instead of keeping it under preferences - could solve a lot of confusion.
Maybe there we can do like we do for modules and add a credit there.
If you as a designer create a theme and someone uses it to create a site for a friend, and he modifies the credit, he doesn't know who really made the theme. In a module, mostly there are a lot of references to the creator (eg in the module information, support site,..).
Quote:
If you design a great theme for Xoops you gain a sense of achievement, positive feedback here on XO and perhaps some money too. If you want more than that, then you need to create themes for a CMS that is not GPL and allows you to use the CC attribution license.
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
Add-ons and Themes for concrete5 can be offered under any license. Most of the add-ons available in our marketplace are either completely free and licensed under MIT as well, or they are commercial add-ons and offered under our standard commercial license. These add-ons are sold on a "per-instance" basis. This means one add-on purchase per live site. Development copies and stages are included.
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
Would preserving "Theme.: developed by someone 2010" in the meta/comments be an answer ?
Well, actually I already do that, since I also design for Concrete5...
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
I think the GPL is good but not for cms systems as it forces every related code to be released under the gpl too - which isn't that bad if you could get a credit for it, but the gpl doesn't enforce that at all.
* XYZ Theme
* copyright: 2010 Vamptrix (http://www.vamptrix.com)
* license: http://www.fsf.org/copyleft/gpl.html GNU GPL
Re: XOOPS chat siteYes, perhaps
Quote:
Re: XOOPS chat siteWe still going on about this? Don't expect anything else but the answer that if you make something for Xoops it has to be GPL and that means anyone can take your work and do what they like with it, well..... expect for themes which don't follow this rule because they are well... themes and they have images in them that can be copyrighted, even though themes uses the Xoops core.... just like Xoops modules...
Oh well.......
Ok sarcasm mode off now....
As a module developer, and someone who has been around Xoops for a while. I can feel your pain on this matter and this now needs to made as clear as possible how Xoops stands (Not Joomla, Wordpress or any other body for example).
I was always told that even while themes use the core to work they are exempt from GPL (Even though this contradicts the same rules applied to modules).
In reality I believe that the only way to protect your work with themes is to ensure that you have your images copyrighted, as you cannot copyright the code, smarty or otherwise. You can easily do that by adding another file with all your copyright applied. Example: Copyright.php etc.
As for allowing people to remove your blatant advertisement in your themes (such as links images etc that link back to your own website), this also goes against the rules of the GPL. 'You may not impose further restrictions' applies here'. I can remove any links to Xoops within Xoops as long as I leave the Copyright intact within the code. So the same should apply to modules and themes.
Personally, I don't want to be a walking advertisement for every Dick, Tom and Harry just because I used their module, theme or plug-in.
Re: XOOPS chat siteQuote:
We still going on about this?
Re: XOOPS chat siteI agree, and we should do this in place of the Xoops Logo and in a size 140px font, in bright red......
Sorted :)
Re: XOOPS chat siteHere is the translation, as far as I can translate:
Quote:
I redesigned from scratch all of this theme including theme.html and style.css. I created all picture files from scratch.
But theme's original is Inpire 7, so I noted theme's author in xoops.org.
You blame me to violate something for all of my works. I'm asking you: which theme has author's link.
I am sending these works what can be done with xoops. If this causes some trouble, I will not send them again.
Thanks
Re: XOOPS chat siteWell we're going too far into this, and I can see that too.
I'm going to solve this in another way: whenever anyone downloads my theme, I'll ask them to keep a link to my site, but they're not required to.
That way my themes are all in the same line (C5 also has that rule, but for removing the credit you need to donate a bit for C5).
And Heyula, your themes look nice :) don't get me wrong, this is a problem that has been here for a longer while, and not only here but also on other cms systems this has been a problem :)
Re: XOOPS chat siteI almost forgot what this thread was about hehe
Also for me nice theme and nice website.
Re: XOOPS chat siteThe two theme.html are almost the same, the only changes are translations and hardcoded values for balimsohbet.com.
http://insraq.me/client/demo/themes/inspire7/theme.html
http://www.balimsohbet.com/themes/heyula-x123/theme.html
And as for the style.css:
You removed each newline, which complicates a little the comparison, but thanks to inline diff tools (I used this online one: http://www.quickdiff.com/), we can see the real differences by also removing newlines to the original style.css.
So what was changed: 4 colors were replaced, 3 background colors were replaced by images, and a gradient was replaced by a color.
The other .css have not been changed at all.
I don't really think you can call this a work "from scratch". This is clearly a derivative work, from a work under GPL 2 license. Thus the theme on balimsohbet.com is also under GPL 2.
That being said, GPL allows any modification, except for the copyright notice which has to be present. I don't know if we can say that the line "Inspire 7 - A Design of INSRAQ" is a copyright notice, but I think that the notice can be made invisible for the end user, the visitor, since he doesn't use the theme, the website is. So there is still missing the copyright notice on the published version ( here http://www.balimsohbet.com/themes/heyula-x123/ ).
I also notice that the original theme is under GPL2, but the .zip file containing the theme has a License.txt that says it's under CC Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported.
INSRAQ> you should update this.
Re: XOOPS chat siteYes, I know the License.txt shall be updated. I was busy with the my website hosting and update the correct version here: http://code.google.com/p/insraq/downloads/list
Thank you.
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