Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 11:23

  • draj

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 271

  • Since: 2005/6/23

This thread is a continuation of the recent incorrect formation of XOOPS Project Council and due to wrong methods by DJ/phppp. There began a debate on this aspect and on request this thread has been started. The news + comments could be seen here:

News on the XOOPS Council & comments...

-----------EVENT 01--------------------
DJ was at this point open and acted in the spirit of open source community. He made it clear that all the candidates shall come from the Project Team Leaders, which he defined it at a later date.

[XoopsProject] proposal - XOOPS Project Council
Posted on: 2007/6/10 3:30

The Project Council shall be the "lead element" for the Project, responsible for major decisions on project issues, of which managing the project teams is one of the top tasks.
Valid candidates shall come, but not limited, from project team leaders;
Now, before the Council is established officially, as the Project Leader, I would like to invite the following two as temporary members of the Council to assist the project management in any aspects:

----------EVENT 02---------------------
Both the following people were encouraged and ready to work in the interest of the community:

JMorris, Posted on: 2007/6/10 3:52

I accept your invitation and look forward to aiding in establishing an environment that embodies and enables a true Open Source spirit.

tom, Posted on: 2007/6/10 4:22

I feel rather honoured that my name be mentioned out of all the possible and potential candidates.
I have told you at least once before DJ, all you have to do is ask...

-----------EVENT 03--------------------
At the same time some responsible people started to feel the pinch of dictatorship or personal methods that did not suit the open spirit for which they supported and showed enormous contribution. If jensclas complained that he faced problems due to the behaviour or something of phppp, it becomes a responsibility of DJ to clear the matter, appologise or reflect on his actions. He remained timid and unchanged. The community saw jensclas going and accepted the loss.

jensclas, Posted on: 2007/6/15 11:36

Alas I feel that little has changed. It seems to me that the lead developer has his own private agenda which contradicts what has appeared in public on too many occasions in the last week.
I am not one for strict rules and procedures, but if there is a nominated procedure or process I do expect to be able to follow it. Under the current circumstances and conditions I cannot.
and the way things are going it will need far more time and energy (and patience)
and I sincerely hope DJ can alter his current leadership style to better suit the future of this community.

Posted on: 2007/6/15 23:16
I do not blame DJ personally- he is doing his best - I just can't deal with his mode of operation - on a personal level.

-----------EVENT 04--------------------
DJ announced the composition of the XOOPS Project Council and laid them down what kind of leaders it would have.

phppp, Posted on: 2007/6/16 9:47

Project teams

1. XOOPS Core Development Team: Team creation is almost completed and the team has been starting informally on sourceforge.net
2. XOOPS Module Development Team: Team leader and member candidates are available, as well as relevant discussions and proposals
3. Documentation Team: team member candidates are available but no leader candidate yet
4. Design Team: team member candidates are available but no leader candidate yet
5. Community Coordinator Team: team member candidates are available but no leader candidate yet
6. Communication Team: proposed by tom and is updated frequently
7. XOOPS Advisory Team: a new trial, still being refined. we hope it ready to work soon.

Project Council
The XOOPS Project Council is to be finalized upon XOOPS Project teams. During the procedure of teams establishment, tom and JMorris are invited as temporary council members.

But the truth is that both of them, James and Tom were not informed about their responsibilities or where they stand. They were faced to clearify through a public forums. Both of them did not have any chance to participate in the decision making process. The anarchorial system keept entwining its energien into dictatorship, for which lack of communication became a part of the normal proceeding.

----------EVENT 05---------------------
Tom came into action.
He saw the need to become active and declared in public his needs for more rights.

tom, Posted on: 2007/6/17 3:37

As a council member I made this request within the Council forums.

phppp, Posted on: 2007/6/17 14:01
2 the communication team has not been announced yet. Its access will be assigned once the team is officially established.
3 there is no Council member since the Council is not built yet although I invited tom and JMorris as temporary members for the procedure of team establishment.
Here tom was already in confrontation with DJ, increasing it.
Perhaps you wish to carry the world on your shoulders and I should step down from 'unofficial' positions for you, I can't handle one thing being said and agreed, then something different being done.

Akitson reported a similar problem with DJ.

akitson, Posted on: 2007/6/21 7:31

2/ Project Council is not functioning correctly because phppp is making decisions on his own without reference to the other council members.
a - JMorris is given the role as XOOPS Project Manager and chairman of XOOPS Council
b - phppp retains role as core development team leader
c - JMorris invites all XOOPS team leaders to inaugral meeting of XOOPS Council to define constitution of the the council, (i.e. membership, tenure, leadership, role and objectives.) This meeting to take place within the next 2 weeks.

------------EVENT 06-------------------
James added his comments in regards to the formation of the XOOPS Project Council and made it clear that he rejects the idea of seeing a one-man-show! This also includes, to my opinion, acting any person in XOOPS including DJ to act as a sole decision maker. You can read his opinion here:

JMorris, Posted on: 2007/6/21 17:19

The impression Tom and I had was that we would have equal say in this council. We were then told that the council was not in effect; therefore, we had no vote....
Now, whether the proposal to carry out the original plans or whether new plans are drafted, I think it is imperative that we clearly establish who will be the people who make the final call are and we clearly define the procedures for the decision making.
We cannot operate under the direction of 1 person at this point. There must be a proper representation from all areas of XOOPS if we are going to restructure XOOPS so that it meets the needs of the majority.

----------EVENT 07--------------------
Akitson reports his wisdom and declares a smell of dictatorship in the following:

akitson, Posted on: 2007/6/22 8:39

Skalpa made the appointments 'as he left'.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that we live in a democracy ... yet.

Vaughan also reported his smell of a one-man-show and objected a potential of dictatorship.

vaughan, Posted on: 2007/6/23 16:18

but I also agree, that all the decisions that have been made lately have been made by 1 person and not discussed with other council members, and I ask, if james & Tom have no say then what's the point of them being council members even if temporary??? but the way things are at moment, it's still a dictatorship (for want of a better word) and not a democracy (which it should be).

----------EVENT 08---------------------
At this time, to cool others, DJ came up with an argument that people keeps beleiving something while he was planning a new XOOPS Project Council of his choice in the back doors inviting his friends or supporters with whom he may not have to be confronted with critisism or a democratic opinion. He claimed to make ommunication much better at the sametime killing the activity of tom, who actually primarily wanted to be a responsible person in the Communication Team.

If the Council existed, why was is not made public?
If people left, why was the community, like Akitson or Tom, not given a chance to participate into th open source project and add to the activity by joining the Council?

Tom and Akitson did not suit his interest and taste of his supporters. They were disturbances or nuicanses in the activities of DJ. Otherwise why are they not given the oppurtunity to participate or why the given rights or responsbilities revoked?

See here:

phppp, Posted on: 2007/6/26 21:03

The only "structured management unit" for XOOPS Project was a XOOPS Project Council established more than one year ago.
The Council members included skalpa, phppp, JMorris and two others. JMorris quit very early. The Council itself had never been active, nor officially announced.
In the past XOOPS has been suffered too much from its lack of communication and non-transparent management, just like the unknown "management structure" mentioned above.
It's time for us to move forward and to build XOOPS an open-source project upon open communication, open management and open development.

----------EVENT 09---------------------
Here, the intention of Akitson was merely not to run for titles but to reduce the burden of DJ and to help him. Akitson saw the problem and grasped the play by DJ and gave him a challenge to form a Council of new members. Most likely, he predected in his mind that the world shall sooner or later come to know about the deeds of DJ and his thinking.

See here:

akitson, Posted on: 2007/6/26 21:52

I give you a challenge:
Establish a XOOPS Council in the next two weeks. Forget core development, you want to be the leader .. so lead. The developers (good men all) can do their job. You do your self appointed one. If you can't do that, then retire and leave it to those who can.

-----------EVENT 10--------------------
It was not possible for Akitson to understand why on earth DJ was behaving different than his views of democracy or open spirit. He saw his helplessness. He did not come forward. He mentions here:

akitson, Posted on: 2007/6/27 7:28

D.J. is playing games here.
It appears that despite popular opinion to the reverse, and despite having a team of people ready to go, D.J. doesn't want this team to function.

------------EVENT 11-------------------
During this time, DJ was busy inviting his friends or supporters, who would work togathr with him. He was then satisfied to beleive that the community will accept his dominance as a leading core developer. The date of a meeting was fixed very quickly and that happened on the instant of 30th June as mentioned in the main article.

He invited only those who did not criticise his opinion or challenge his leadership.

Tom was not invited to be in his (phppp) council, most likely. His status of a Team Leader was neglected. He was hurt because of the strategies of phppp.

Akitson was not invited or informed, as he confirmed above. He faced the same problem.

Hence what happened is that the two team leaders from the two important teams were carefully excluded from the council members and have no status.

------------EVENT 12-------------------
DJ declares that he has formed a XOOPS Project Council with the help of the other so called members invitee members and officially declare the rules of membership.

So according to those rules, DJ has the sole rights to choose his supporters he wants and kick out the rest.

Following happened in a nutshell:

- There existed a Hierarchial structure of Monarchy with a difference where the Kingship was passed on out of choice of the ruler. The XOOPS community remained in the dark for ages. No one know if a council existed. No one know if a new xoosphere was being designed. The authority was being passed from one person to anathor, like Skalpa to James and James to pphpp, etc. in the form of a one-man-show.
- DJ kicked out Tom as a Communication Team Leader and Akitson a Module Team Leader or side-tracked due to his direct or induced actions in a strategic manner. For this he had to filter both those teams out during the formation of the XOOPS Project Council.
- DJ got his agenda passed of what he wanted, as mentioned by tom above. This was a full and sole control of the choice of Council members.

James resigned for reasons I am not sure....

DJ did not keep up his announcement - as an official council member - of choosing the candidates from the project teams as mentioned by himself on 2007/6/10 3:30.

Yesterday was Skalpa here. A legend today...
Today, we have DJ. Later he could disappear.
But the rules remain. Trends remain.

An eastabilished practice remain and entwines into the XOOPS project becoming a part of it. Also it would be projected to the world community, especially to the new developers, who would immediately recognise the dictatorship elements of the core team. They will not participate into it.

I am confident that Akitson and Tom would have objected the selection or rejection of members based on the Command or choice by the leading core developer. I trust and beleive that tom and akitson have been brought up in a democratic environments and would have seen the dictatorial elements of the Rules of the Membership.

The change I want to see is the following through an eight point program:

1. DJ must never have a possiblity to excercise his quality of killing energies of any #OOPS# person, energies offered by the community.
2. DJ or any Member of the council in the future cannot have a full authority and control over the council in its choice or rejection of Council Members.
3. The Communication & Module Teams that were announced before were in the right direction and must be put back again in its place. They belong to the XOOPS Project Council and must become an integral part of it.
4. Change in the Rules of Membership to the extent that it clearly represents that XOOPS is a community represented or driven organisation termed as XOOPS Project Council.
5. Eastablish a system at all levels that no area or aspect remains under control of one particular person whom-so-ever for the remaaining life of xoops.
6. Chane or extend Rules of the Council in the manner that there is an Autonomy and Independence of different bodies or members, that does not come under the inflence of a particular person, politics or a group.
7. Change the mechanism of the functional body that it does not enter into a danger again, like it happened now or in the past.
8. Design the mechanism of all operational bodies in the manner that it does not become passive or inactive.

Further, I appeal to DJ to really learn more of democratic fundamentals, better communication methods so that it does not lead to breaking the community or leaving of responsible community members as seen in the past weeks. If he decides to remain, then he has to change his attitudes and methods. Period.

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 13:26

  • giba

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 638

  • Since: 2003/4/26

Thanks draj, this material not complet, but is relevant collection.

Now, if possible, D.J. reply for all community.

A great one lider is in managing the moments difficult.

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council

EDIT: This conversation does not deal with the call for DJ to answer the question of the original poster so I withdraw my comments as out of order.
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 14:33

  • draj

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 271

  • Since: 2005/6/23

As mentioned in the article above, it could be seen that phpbb/DJ declared "as Posted on: 2007/6/10 3:30"

"Valid candidates shall come, but not limited, from project team leaders;"

DJ achieved the following, as against his own declaration:

1. XOOPS Core Development Team:

He was and is in there.
This team has a head on start and he ofcourse got it going.

2. XOOPS Module Development Team:

Akitson was not invited to be a part of the XOOPS Project Council and is kicked out entirely from the Module Development Team.

Infact, the team even does not exists officially any more!!!

He is not part of the council and has no say from the module developers side or cannot represent any problems or development approaches suggested by module deveopers.

DJ ruined the official status of a new Module Developers Team.

3. Documentation Team:

A. jensclas declared to participate (see here) but left XOOPS because of the dictatorial behaviour of DJ/phppp.
B. James supported but sometime later left.

There are other names in this thread. There is a team leader, jeffgr. But he is not in the XOOPS Project Council. According to the OFFICIAL declaration by DJ dated 2007/6/10 3:30, jeffgr MUST be a part of the council!

4. Design Team:

studioC was invited to participate a closed-door foundation of the XOOPS project council as a friend of DJ as well as the Design Team Leader, chosen, appointed or supported by the community.

He enjoys his position as a XOOPS Project Council, seems to be happy and motivated, which is very good. Not affected by the behaviour of phppp/DJ yet but most likely beleives that the DJ-snake will not attack him.

5. Community Coordinator Team:

There is a team leader, kc0maz. But he is not in the XOOPS Project Council. According to the OFFICIAL declaration by DJ dated 2007/6/10 3:30, kc0maz MUST be a part of the council!

kc0maz has to listen commands what the friends of DJ wants to execute, according to the recent composition.

6. Communication Team:

Tom is kicked out from the inclusion of XOOPS Project Council.
His team work is in the garbage!

It is a bit unfortunate, that Tom did not yet learn to kiss feets of people or keep his mouth shut when things are wrong, I observe. It is quite sad though, that Tom did not even learn to operate under dictatorships.

Had he learned, he would be for sure in the XOOPS Project Council, as DJ officially declared on 2007/6/10 3:30 before.

7. XOOPS Advisory Team:

DJ is looking for the Ex-Xoopsers, primarily to figure out why they left Xoops.
I do not understand why should he study the patterns of why people leave Xoops?
So I would suggest not to pubish the analysis of it.

Instead, DJ, why dont you ask yourself and interospect why some people left XOOPS in the last weeks?

Conclusion of the story:

Only studioC was the only one chosen as a Project Team Leader, to become a member of the XOOPS Project Council.

The other three members, namely Christian, Dave_L and irmtfan substituted the Project Team Leaderships as members in the Council as officially announced by DJ on 2007/6/10 3:30! Ofcourse, they are responsible and good people. However they are chosen by DJ and could be sacked by him, according to the Rules of Membership.

So the lessen is to remain in his good books.

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 14:34

  • tom

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1359

  • Since: 2002/9/21

James withdrew from any involvement with management positions with xoops.org and took with him many of the good people who sided with him in his efforts to overthrow phppp as sole project leader.
(The one who stepped in and bought the community back to life, with a plan, his plan.)

I believe James got not only what he asked for but what he demanded. Complete independence to run xoopsinfo and xoopswiki however he sees fit without foundation interference.

@ BlueStocking

He never took any people at all, where the hell did you get that information from?

He never tried to overthrow anyone either, someone been toking the reaper here?

He doesn't run XOOPSInfo, it's a team with good people from the community whom run it, and yes he is part of that team, and those people are still in the community too.

Also he does not run the XOOPSWiki.

Now my opinions on the rest of this topic have already been covered in the recent news article, so I will await an official reply before commenting further.

Peace out
Mr Tom

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 14:41

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26

To repeat from Tom:

James does not run XOOPSWiki

Thank you

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council

EDIT: This conversation does not deal with the call for DJ to answer the question of the original poster so I withdraw my comments as out of order.
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 14:42

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26

.... I may have neglected to mention:

* James does not run XOOPSWiki

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council
  • 2007/7/4 14:55

  • draj

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 271

  • Since: 2005/6/23

Hi BS,

BlueStocking wrote:
Xoops doesn't ship with a module, so what need is there for a team?

Xoops may not be shipped with modules but also does not function without modules. Without modules, XOOPS does not have a face or function other then a basic kind of apache page.

So I would reconsider and rethink on this matter from your side!

Re: Call for a community action on Xoops Project Council

I should have said, "Xoops doesn't ship with a module, so what need is there for a module team within the XOOPS project area?" Modules are a community add-on that should not fall under the auspices of xoops.org, the project. I can make a module, you can make a module, anyone can make a module. Same goes for themes. They are community projects and should be supported as such. When I go to xoops.org I should be able to easily get information on the project, its goals, its purpose, and its documentation on what the core provides. When I have problems with the core, I go to xoops.org. aka [dev.docs.support.lib.archives off the root]

I should recieve links to additional theme makers, module builders and whatever else is built and serviced by the community for the community. ALL being unoffical, and equally endorsed by the project.

This is the working model that James was pushing for, I believe he got it. Now, it is up to him to take charge and develop that aspect of XOOPS if he wants it. I don't see anyone challenging him for it.

Just my opinion.
hhttps://xoops.org/modules/repository .. It is time to get involved - XOOPS.ORG


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