xoops forums

kaotik

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2009/12/11 16:42
kaotik
kaotik (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 861
Since: 2004/2/19
#1

Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

Once in a while I like to experiment with other cms's/frameworks to see what others are offering and what I can learn. In that spirit I decided to try the latest worpress and publish here my findings. So, here goes:
Wordpress has a very interesting approach. It has one content "module" that's tightly integrated into the core. It also has one wysiwyg editor and media manager(similar to xoops). This allows it to be highly integrated. I (or any other XOOPS user) could achieve the same result with at least a dozen different XOOPS modules and at least 4 wysiwyg editor's. But what really struck me is that, as soon as you install wordpress, your site is ready to go online with content! This reminded me of the early days of XOOPS (when it came with news, polls, download and more). You downloaded it and were ready to 'play'!
This tight integration is both a plus and minus;
Minus- this level of integration means you can't install another content module
Plus- With this level of integration you can rest assured there won't be "problems" with it's usage, plus everything works fluidly.
Administration
Another big plus, is the dashboard (what we call admin theme). When you enter the administration area, you get all pertinent information regarding your site, including pending comments, pages or content. We could accomplish this in XOOPS (I have in the past with an admin theme called vitamin C), but we currently have no admin theme that works quite in the same manner.
First Time with Wordpress
Wordpress installs with one example article, one page and one comment. This allows new users to see how things work right from the very start. This saves a LOT of time, instead of hunting around. This also means that many more people who try out wordpress, stick with it. I believe there are a lot of people who download XOOPS for the first time, can't understand how to publish an article/content and then go on to try something else. This might also be one of the possible reasons why wordpress has such a vibrant array of themes. Since it's a "works right out of the box" experience it's highly likely more designer's will use it. Of course coders will see the benefit's of systems such as XOOPS and drupal with their high level of modularity, basically transforming them into frameworks.
Templates
On the negative side, I'm not a big fan of their template system. I still prefer smarty (I know there are people against smarty, but we are all entitled to an opinion). I believe a template should be handled by a wysiwyg editor.
Conclusion
Wordpress has evolved into a great system! Of course it doesn't have the level of modularity that XOOPS has but it provides first time users with a great "out-of-the-box" experience. Could we accomplish the same with xoops? Yes. But currently we provide so many different options, that a new user might feel lost on how to accomplish even the most simple tasks, such as publishing an article.
Here's a thought, why not create a create a blog pack, where 1 content module and 1 wysiwyg editor is provided?
Overall I'm impressed with wordpress. We can learn a lot from their approach.

mjoel

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2009/12/12 8:54
mjoel
mjoel (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 296
Since: 2006/12/9
#2

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

** i know the reason of not having module besides the profile and PM in the core is to reduce the size of XOOPS installtion...

i think maybe there should be at least basic lightweight content module that user can use...or it will be nice if there is a core way to add content without using module juts like what other cms is doing.....

** or maybe a simple welcome CUSTOM BLOCK is activated right after installtion to guide on what they should do next as example where to download module, how to create custom block etc....

red_Slider

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2009/12/12 12:23
red_Slider
red_Slider (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 248
Since: 2006/1/4 1
#3

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

Hey guys!
I know wordpress joomla and drupal. But I still stay with xoops. Theres no need to say why, but I see we shall talk what is missing.

1. Do you remember module packs? Starter, community, personal, intranet etc. We have to had these! (We had module packages build in may 2008 ...)
2. Mjoel - you said about example block and article. For example article module (by phppp) has example categories, articles etc. It's a really pretty nice module (but it's not so ligh). So what we need? Not only modules packs itselves - but like it is in joomla, drupal and WP - a quickstart!
Imagine - that you install a full portal with some example content, blocks and other functionality. Just install and here it is - your first full site. We need that.
3. Take part not only in these frameworks / CMS - take a look into XoopsCube. Kaotic - do it! I like drupal and WP dashbord (administration) but much more I like XOOPS Cube admin side! The most I like help system and preloads (last started in XOOPS 2.3 and 2.4 here on xoops.org)
4. Docs! Yes - developers need them!
5. YAXS - we shall (like in drupal) writo more about our work! Not only modules, but if we do some hacks or tricks, try to share with other!


There are more fuctions and extensions (in system) but first what we need to do it's quickstart.

PS IMHO XOOPS Cube has today better architecture and extends more XOOPS core and system functionality - but we shall see what XOOPS 3.0 comes. I trully believe that will be a real revolution for us!

PS PS If you look closer to these system you will see systematic work to share extensions, modules and hacks. There a plenty sites where you can find them. If you look on XOOPS and XOOPS Cube sites (especialy on xoopscube.org) you find there maybe 40% of them (extended codes and hacks). But where they are? Mostly on local support sites!

regards
red Slider

kaotik

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2009/12/13 16:23
kaotik
kaotik (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 861
Since: 2004/2/19
#4

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

hello red_slider and mjoel
I'm tinkering with XOOPS 2.4.2, a content module and 1 wysiwyg editor to achieve a similar experience to that of wordpress.
I have a pretty good idea of what the end result will look like, it's getting there that will take some work
mjoel: I've been meaning to try XOOPS Cube for some time...

red_Slider

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2009/12/13 17:06
red_Slider
red_Slider (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 248
Since: 2006/1/4 1
#5

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

There is one fundamental question. What really XOOPS is and what it shoud be?
Is XOOPS (XCL and ?????) a framework, or is it a blog platform, a CMS system or "Web Application Platform" as XOOPS Cube developers calls it?
Me, as You and many others "adult" xoopsers know how to start, build and work with a new project. But try look on it though newbie eyes. It's not so easy. XOOPS (and forks) are really easy to setup, and work on it. I thing we should not only back into "packs" (read above), but also with tutorials and a newbie guides. XOOPS Cube has UNMG - Ultimate Newbies Modules Guide and Hodajuku Distribition, that shows to new users where to start. I like that method. You take HD package and starts a new portal with all modules working on it. Without any hacks, works with editors in modules function files .... brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Just core + 100% working modules you need to start your own website!
Ok but it's not everything. As I mentioned earlier - we need quickstarts - enhaced versions of startpack - with examle content in portal. With preconfigured modules, blocks, etc.

And at last - special space (category, portal, whatever) for newbies.

In that case XOOPS start to be a really user friendly CMS (or Web Aplication Platform - I like that!). So we have to start with tuts to show newbies how to use XOOPS CMS System.

Do you all remember "Is XOOPS (.org) becoming a playground?"? In background of this discussion is that point of view onto XOOPS at all.

PS Kaotic on this moment I thing it is useless. Why? Implementing content into system sounds nice, and I like it, but we all waiting for XOOPS 3.0. After that we shall do the best to do it. Content or other module - doesn't matter - it shoud be light, fast, and elastic. BTW - look on that thread on XOOPS Cube - CKK for XOOPS Cube - forum and news.

And the most important thing - we have to focus on 2.3.x and 2.4.x versions. It's a good habit to have support only for 2 last versions. Modules compatibility (special thanks to babylonbyxoops, mamba and others, who said that we shall see compatybility list hero on xoops.org). We shoul focus on themes, extensios, block, hacks just for those 2 versions. Whatever else is dead! Incompatibibities shoud be moved to archives. We close the doors to go into next level. Im doing that by my self. I just deleted all my files with 2.0.28 and 2.2 branch. Started from "0" with 2.3.3 and now with 2.4.

And one more think - for Odin! - SEO and url rewrite - look on the forums - not only herem but on local supports too! It's a shame that XOOPS doesn't have that in core!

regards red_Slider

Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2009/12/13 20:11
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10838
Since: 2004/4/23
#6

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

Quote:
i think maybe there should be at least basic lightweight content module that user can use...or it will be nice if there is a core way to add content without using module juts like what other cms is doing.....

That's the plan - to include a Content module in the next major release of XOOPS, probably 2.5. We'll also need one standard WYSIWYG editor.

As mentioned earlier, 2.5 will include some new cool features that we'll introduce end of December (hopefully in time for Christmas ).

Personally, I started to work on consolidating all available XOOPS modules. For the last two weeks I had to take a break from it as I have a work deadline, but hopefully in a week or so I'll be back at that.

Once the modules are consolidated, I'll upload them to SourceForge, and will work on updating the repository here. However, I still need a "multi-category" version of the repository - any takers who want to modify the wf-downloads module that we're using here?

In the meantime, we need to start working on refreshing our "Module Packs". This will answer some of the issues some users are having because they don't know which modules should they use.

In closing - I appreciate Kaotik's desire to learn form others. We need to do it and use it as inspiration for making XOOPS the best CMS. The critical success factor for us is "Speed of innovation and adaptation". We need to get better in that.

I am very happy to see the new energy among XOOPS users and developers to improve XOOPS. In the last couple of years we've set a foundation for a lot of new things, and now it will be time to execute on this.

I strongly believe that 2010 will be a very exciting year for our community!!!

phppp

XOOPS Contributor
Posted on: 2009/12/14 2:16
phppp
phppp (Show more)
XOOPS Contributor
Posts: 2857
Since: 2004/1/25
#7

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

Quote:

red_Slider wrote:


And the most important thing - we have to focus on 2.3.x and 2.4.x versions. It's a good habit to have support only for 2 last versions. Modules compatibility (special thanks to babylonbyxoops, mamba and others, who said that we shall see compatybility list hero on xoops.org). We shoul focus on themes, extensios, block, hacks just for those 2 versions. Whatever else is dead! Incompatibibities shoud be moved to archives.


+1

bumciach

Not too shy to talk
Posted on: 2009/12/14 10:19
bumciach
bumciach (Show more)
Not too shy to talk
Posts: 153
Since: 2007/6/25
#8

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

"Web Application Platform" - I like this definition and I like think about XOOPS like that ;)
IMHO XOOPS is too simple structure to be framework (like CakePHP, Kohana), but too complex to be only regular CMS. So it would be better not to include content module into core. This is not the way you should go XOOPS (the packs idea is better).

kaotik

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2009/12/14 11:45
kaotik
kaotik (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 861
Since: 2004/2/19
#9

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

There seems to be a miscommunication... I wasn't suggesting any kind of core hack or change. I was discussing the possibility of 2.4.2 coming with a content module. The idea would be for a user, on XOOPS installation, to also install a content module. This would allow him to immediately 'play' with xoops. If he wants he can later install a different content module.
Think of this as the "packs" idea, besides this is just a small test from me.

red_Slider

Quite a regular
Posted on: 2009/12/14 12:27
red_Slider
red_Slider (Show more)
Quite a regular
Posts: 248
Since: 2006/1/4 1
#10

Re: Learning from others: Wordpress through the eyes of a xoops developer

As Mamba said above - it should be done in 2.5 realise ;)