31
jmorris2
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 2:22

  • jmorris2

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 46

  • Since: 2007/4/17


Quote:

skenow wrote:

A simple approach that might work. Can you elaborate on the International area? I'm not sure what would fit in there.


A liaison to the local support sites who establishes a primary contact with each of these sites and retrieves and reports a summary of the month's activities.

This can include current needs, current contributions, current projects, etc.
The lights are on... nobody's home

32
snow77
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 2:28

  • snow77

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 864

  • Since: 2003/7/23


Quote:

nobody wrote:

Have a manager of the following 5 areas of XOOPS:
Core
Addons
Community
Publicity
International

Those 5 would form a council or "Board of Directors" that ultimately has the final vote. Under each "Director" would be a team of peers who tasks could be delegated to.



I agree, one of the first reasonable things I've heard in a long time here.

- Publicity, I want to be in this one with the promotion of XOOPS and the XOOPS demo that I've been building with some partners, not as manager but part of the group.

33
MadFish
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 3:38

  • MadFish

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1056

  • Since: 2003/9/27


Quote:
A liaison to the local support sites who establishes a primary contact with each of these sites and retrieves and reports a summary of the month's activities.

This can include current needs, current contributions, current projects, etc.


Chappy volunteered to do something like this the other day. Hopefully, he is still interested.

34
ladysham
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 4:05

  • ladysham

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 274

  • Since: 2003/11/11


I would highly recommend that not all the lead people should be programmers. I think that the community as a whole would agree that our programmers need to be actively programming, not always handling the daily administrative or moderating duties. There are others with expertise in administration that could take on some of the duties.

As I mentioned before on another thread, I would love to work on either the add-ons (module repository) or the newsletter, which I think could be done to make people excited again about the direction XOOPS is/should be going.

Count me in!
Kelly Ling
Shamrock's Web Design
http://www.shamrocksweb.com

If you're coming to see my house - give me two weeks. If you're coming to see ME - come any time!

35
winsion
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 4:12

  • winsion

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 55

  • Since: 2003/11/23


To speak it is well.
But which has the keys of the house xoops?
Who currently makes the decisions?
Or are the decision makers?
Do not give me the official list, it does not function.
Many goodwills in the community XOOPS killed in egg.
The Herko system did not function (with for both of the cor not). I thought that the change would make good but obviously the system skalpa did not function better… with for both of the cor not.
Today I think that XOOPS is in danger, but which with the solution?
Cheer for this thread, it is necessary that the community XOOPS can speak about that.
It is necessary that each one can give its proposal. And can be that XOOPS will be able to become democratic.
Sorry for my poor google english.
...

36
wtravel
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?

Can somebody please put a hack in the forum so that long posts are not lost when the session time has expired at the moment of posting (this post is going to be a lot shorter than my original one)

First of all I think this is a good initiative, but to semi quote winsion:Quote:
... who has the keys of the house of xoops?
To set up a management like this you will need a consensus of the key players.

The reason why the previous core team/management team construction failed was because there was no consensus, neither in the management team, nor in the community.

I think this is something to take into account when you work out this idea. Good luck and looking forward to hear more of this.

Cheers

37
Herko
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 9:10

  • Herko

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4238

  • Since: 2002/2/4 1


Anyone who wants to give managing the XOOPS project a decent try will get my blessing. So I support this thread.

Here's a couple of points to take into consideration when coming up withthe best form and method to manage here. These are from my ample experience and professional opinion, so please don't dismiss them offhand.

About democracy. Democracy is good, but in too many posts I see only a single sided view on democracy within the XOOPS project. Democracy -where I live- also means paying taxes and abiding to the law, and that those people put in charge make the final desicions without your further approval. This is indeed no direct democracy but a representative democracy, but mostly this applies to direct democracy as well.
Now, applied to the XOOPS community, this would mean that there'd be a way to define taxes (what does the community need to give in order to have the democracy work properly), and for everyone to abide the laws laid down. At the moment, I don't see the community being taxed in any way, nor do a lot of people abide by those few moral and ethical laws that we have laid down in the XOOPSiquette and the GPL license.

And then there's the discussion of democracy vs. meritocracy. Meritcocratic decisions are made by people who have proved that they're capable and worthy of making those decisions in the past. Sometimes the XOOPS project has shown itself capable of working as a maritocratic project. But nowadays all I see is personal attacks on those that have stepped up and little to no real discussion. In short, a huge amount of drama, but very little storyline. Having been (and still being) the brunt of those personal attacks, I can say that this is deeply demotivating, and has an adverse effect. Why would I listen to what those people attacking *me* have to say? I've never been one to shun a real debate, and if the outcome isn't in your favor, live with it. That's whateverocracy. But if it is, you get all the credits. That's how I've tried to work, but some people don't think that is enough. They're right, and the world should know and recognise that.
My point here isn't my bitterness or disappointment, but that this is a fact of life for this project. The loudest get the most attention, and this is often mistaken as 'the will of the community'. If you're going to manage XOOPS, you'll have to find a way to deal with decisions not being questioned at every turn. And that the decisions are made professionally. Sometimes, the will of the community isn't good enough.

Another point I'd like to give you is about transparency. This is a huge issue. I've probably set the bad example there in the past, but I definately wasn't alone in this. You see, when it comes down to it, everyone wants the other to be as transparent as possible. But when it comes down to self-transparency, there are a lot of reasons why this isn't possible or wishful. Transparency is also vulnerable, and doing that is difficult at the best of times.
A very wise man told me yesterday that if you have transparency at the top of your list, your aim is to become invisible. Because, when you're fully transparent, nobody will see you. Now there's a conundrum. True transparency means no need for roadmaps and plans. No need for deadlines. No need for teams and communications. Because everyone would be able to find out for themselves. So, then there'd be no need for the XOOPS project (meaning as an organised project, not as an application).
My point here is that if you're going to manage any project, you will need room to think, discuss and plan. You need a place to negotiate, and when everything is out in the open, there's no room to negotiate. In fact, as soon as there are more then one interest at hand, you will need room to coordinate and plan. When is the best time to release this news, what steps are we going to take, who will finish that part of the project and let everyone know...

Then there's the point of scale and dimensions of the organization. WHat is the Community, and the Project? Are they the same? Then why is there a staff of people that should do the work for the community in the name of the project? Who gets to decide how the application develops, and how the community itself is run? Who gets the power to realise things on the websites? How are those decisions made? How do you deal with conflicts, and how do you keep people to their promises? Who gets to say what is in the best interest of everyone? Who gets to vote? ANd vote on what? And why?

These are not easy issues to solve and do right. They're at the heart of the problems we now see. I'm looking forward to seeing real solutions and a lot less drama and shouting at everything. This means less ego.

Now, as a last point I'd like to plug the XOOPS Foundation here. Please consider how this would fit into your plans. It is there, and has been working behind the scenes on securing the continuity of the XOOPS project, whichever way it will go. The Foundation definatley does not lead XOOPS (nor should it, ever). But is is the only legal representative of the XOOPS project (not the community), so use that properly.

Herko

38
web-M
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 9:53

  • web-M

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 100

  • Since: 2006/1/2 2


Maybe there can be formed a small group which can make a proposition for a new structure to manage XOOPS as a total.

I mention a small group because I think the past has shown to us that it much to much for one person to do all the work. Also I think it should have members that have already shown the capacities in the past. So we can learn from their experiences.

The proposition can be discussed in a members launch so there can grow commitment to the plan and the proposition can be made better which make the chance of consensus bigger.

I think that to get a proposition which can include the whole XOOPS project there has to be looked at aspects of development, foundation and community. So my proposal is to get a group of members that represent that aspects.

So maybe the group can looks like this:
1 member of the development team
1 member of the foundation
1 member of the moderator team
2 members of the international community
and 2 members with a great state of duty in the project

I do not know if it is a realistic plan but I thought I should have mentioned it.

39
davidl2
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?
  • 2007/4/20 10:00

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


Something like this is more sensible then one person, to receive all the issues and all the flack.

If I'd have thought one person could have managed this - I'd have stood myself ages ago.. and for some strange reason, a number of people have asked me in the past. (Which was nice of them).

But I've also seen how much nonsense was directed purely at the heads of the individuals who have stepped up before now.

Anyway - back to work for me

(btw - I like a combination of web-m's idea (above) and "nobodys" here

40
wtravel
Re: is it time for a lead project manager?

I also like web-M's suggestion, with the request to give enough room for input and ideas from the rest of the community.

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