xoops forums

wishcraft

Module Developer
Posted on: 2008/4/21 10:15
wishcraft
wishcraft (Show more)
Module Developer
Posts: 3711
Since: 2007/5/18
#1

Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

Hi all, I have just been having an evening chat with phppp, after my day of being Xoopy, i think we need to introduce a license key that is provided free with your xoops.org that operates core systems.

For two reasons it will give us a count of the number of XOOPS Systems installed similarly to the way OsCommerce's website tells you how many sites are running OsCommerce..

On the site, so people know how many XOOPS sites are running

We are thinking about using a port 80 Soap transport layer, that involves various degrees of pass hasing and dropped hash systems that revolve.

Then I had to mention:

Quote:

[7:21:29 PM] Simon Roberts says: well you can distribute files over soap
[7:21:35 PM] Simon Roberts says: i haven't explored that much


We started relining for QA we can provide distribution of modules over Soap with a module repository in XOOPS itself that requires you to log in and will download directly to your installation (no more FTP), certified modules by 3rd parties etc straight into your XOOPS platform..

It will have to be part of the 3rd parties which will provide eventually We can issue a key for the software to display a certified logo and also work with developers on a service to serve there software from both here and there network for a p2p similar distro service but for software... Maybe with fields for paypal redirections etc, for purchase off the network..

The rest of the conversation was history..
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Mamba

Moderator
Posted on: 2008/4/21 11:47
Mamba
Mamba (Show more)
Moderator
Posts: 10988
Since: 2004/4/23
#2

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

Cool concept!

I'm definitely interested in seeing a download service for our certified modules or updates. This would make a very user-driven service, especially if we could check the release the user has, and tell him that some of the selected modules might not work on his configuration, because they are not certified.

More coffee???
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giba

Just can't stay away
Posted on: 2008/5/2 9:13
giba
giba (Show more)
Just can't stay away
Posts: 638
Since: 2003/4/26
#3

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

This concept is the future

Web applications.

vamptrix

Theme Designer
Posted on: 2008/5/7 16:57
vamptrix
vamptrix (Show more)
Theme Designer
Posts: 424
Since: 2008/5/3 1
#4

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

This is really interesting, but what with updates with OneClick software installations like those from my host, Lycos, which upgrades easily on the control panel, by clicking the update button, but then you don't have any control over the upgrade or installations, so we should keep this in mind, so that the key can be "installed" after an upgrade or installation... for the rest, this is a good concept! A very good one!
ke.vinpet.it | Linux, webhosting and networking specialist
Do you need help with hosting, installing or customizing your XOOPS website? I also develop modules and themes for XOOPS.

Peekay

XOOPS is my life!
Posted on: 2008/5/7 20:37
Peekay
Peekay (Show more)
XOOPS is my life!
Posts: 2335
Since: 2004/11/20
#5

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

Quote:
For two reasons it will give us a count of the number of XOOPS Systems installed similarly to the way OsCommerce's website tells you how many sites are running OsCommerce.

As a non-commercial organisation I can't imagine why those stats would be needed. Zen Cart has a similar link and also has automated upgrade notifications. I turn it off. I do not want my customers nagging me to upgrade their installation just because a newer version is available. I think XOOPS is great, but as numerous XOOPS upgrades have actually proven to be worse than the previous version, there is no way I would allow core or module upgrades to be determined by anyone except myself (following a thorough test).

Quote:
especially if we could check the release the user has, and tell him that some of the selected modules might not work on his configuration, because they are not certified.

If xoops.org webmasters had ever taken any of the countless opportunities in the past to insist that module developers provide basic system requirements to get their module listed in the repository, the 'hit-and-miss' experience that is XOOPS would have been solved by now. The idea of using an intrusive technology to make a suitability determination is unbelievable. You would spend time on that, rather than insisting that a developers puts 'PHP 5 compatible' if their module works with PHP 5?

Quote:
We started relining for QA we can provide distribution of modules over Soap with a module repository in XOOPS itself that requires you to log in and will download directly to your installation (no more FTP)

The big flaw with that idea is that many (not just some) modules require modification to get them to...

a) Work
b) Validate

The notion of one size fits all solution simply does not exist with open-source software (not just Xoops). The whole concept is that you can customise the software to your exact requirements. Users can't do that if they have no choice but to simply install it. You're proposing a service for simpletons that cannot FTP a few folders and press an 'install' button.

IMHO, the thing that new XOOPS users lack most is a single official instruction manual (just one - on this website - not a WIKI or 20+ useful articles) and proper system-specs for modules.

Given that information, I am confident most users will have the ability to set things up by themselves without big brother's help.
A thread is for life. Not just for Christmas.

Anonymous

Posted on: 2008/5/7 21:48
Anonymous
Anonymous (Show more)
Posts: 0
Since:
#6

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

Quote:
Peekay wrote:

You're proposing a service for simpletons that cannot FTP a few folders and press an 'install' button.


This gets my vote for "Forum Quote of the Year"

seolio

Not too shy to talk
Posted on: 2008/5/7 21:54
seolio
seolio (Show more)
Not too shy to talk
Posts: 196
Since: 2005/11/2
#7

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

I like this idea and would love to see it in the future, although I do agree with 'peekay' on some points, especially losing control to completelely customise it. Maybe an option to have it completely manual(as it is now) or automated(as you are proposing)?

I will not say much on the subject apart from that!

wishcraft

Module Developer
Posted on: 2008/5/8 4:50
wishcraft
wishcraft (Show more)
Module Developer
Posts: 3711
Since: 2007/5/18
#8

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

Quote:

Peekay wrote:
As a non-commercial organisation I can't imagine why those stats would be needed. Zen Cart has a similar link and also has automated upgrade notifications. I turn it off. I do not want my customers nagging me to upgrade their installation just because a newer version is available. I think XOOPS is great, but as numerous XOOPS upgrades have actually proven to be worse than the previous version, there is no way I would allow core or module upgrades to be determined by anyone except myself (following a thorough test).


This will be controlled, there will be a certification team for this system, that will test modules etc, before they can be certified, once they are certified and hashed then there will be a system where by people can install verified modules that are 'recommended' by XOOPS cert team.

Quote:

If xoops.org webmasters had ever taken any of the countless opportunities in the past to insist that module developers provide basic system requirements to get their module listed in the repository, the 'hit-and-miss' experience that is XOOPS would have been solved by now.


Do you want to hire a beta testing team to check modules completely?

Quote:

The idea of using an intrusive technology to make a suitability determination is unbelievable. You would spend time on that, rather than insisting that a developers puts 'PHP 5 compatible' if their module works with PHP 5?


Well modules will be tested before installed into the certification system, a team at XOOPS France, has developed a certification checklist for modules that people should publish here.. it would be good..

Quote:

The big flaw with that idea is that many (not just some) modules require modification to get them to...

a) Work
b) Validate


This is in the eye of the beholder I guess, I have had no problems with the modules, i have used, mind you that is not many, as the modules will be validated before installed into the checksum archived system XoopsCert which mind you will not disable the system or provide any form of limit wear, it is a system that will be able to eventually identify where changes where made in a module/core so a secondary party editing those modules can quickly digress where changes where made, and either fix or identify problems.

Quote:

You're proposing a service for simpletons that cannot FTP a few folders and press an 'install' button.


I was a simpleton once like you peekay not everyone is leet like you with your FTP client..

Quote:

IMHO, the thing that new XOOPS users lack most is a single official instruction manual (just one - on this website - not a WIKI or 20+ useful articles) and proper system-specs for modules.


Instead of complaining about it why don't you start documenting it, the problem is most people use the XOOPS site for a drop and run generics they don't edit or create a wiki page for there modules nor offer any support.

Quote:

Given that information, I am confident most users will have the ability to set things up by themselves without big brother's help.


Hey big brother was a kewl dream I had last night, I don't know what the government has to do with xoops, this is GNU...
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xgarb

Not too shy to talk
Posted on: 2008/5/8 8:48
xgarb
xgarb (Show more)
Not too shy to talk
Posts: 154
Since: 2003/3/30
#9

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

I suppose that someone needs to think about who XOOPS is aimed at. I worry that making it too simple could affect the flexibility of the system.

Most users at the moment I imagine are web developers who set it up for themselves or someone else, maybe add a few hacks and even their own custom modules. Personally I think the system is to complex for those looking for a one button install and maybe those people would be better with Wordpress or phpBB rather than the framework that XOOPs is.

I might just be thinking about my own needs here of course.

(I like the idea of a control panel where you can see if the core or modules need updating. Especially if this is for security updates but maybe this could be done with RSS?)

einherjer

Just popping in
Posted on: 2008/5/8 10:08
einherjer
einherjer (Show more)
Just popping in
Posts: 30
Since: 2002/11/8
#10

Re: Xoops Licence Keys - Over a mild coffee :-)

Quote:

Peekay wrote:
IMHO, the thing that new XOOPS users lack most is a single official instruction manual (just one - on this website - not a WIKI or 20+ useful articles) and proper system-specs for modules.

100% agree!
I really miss a detailed HowTo on writing modules including all features like tokens, comment functions etc.