I think I could understand if the German community was upset with the recent releases, and perhaps this is a reaction to this.

As a XOOPS developer, I regret and feel sorry, uncomfortable with frankblack's negative comments on XOOPS 2.2*

As a local support webmaster, I understand frankblack's feeling and have taken same actions for XOOPS Simplified Chinese Community.

For the New Traditional Chinese Community, I believe they also have such feeling and actions although they do not speak out here.
-- the Original Traditional Chinese Support has announced supporting XOOPS Cube.

Not pour oil on argument but I just happen to be a developer and a local support webmaster, divergently in some sense.


[ADDED]
Some 'official Xoops' users go to XOOPS Cube.
Meanwhile some Japan users come to 'official XOOPS 2.2*'.

users have choice, but with troubles.

I, too, have been using XOOPS for almost a year now for sites for self-reliant customers and non-profits. There is so much I've received from this community, and I'm looking for ways to contribute back.

The XOOPS core is actually a very elegant system. I've worked integrating various web technologies since 1993. When I recently leaped into the CMS arena due to market forces, I delved into a number of CMSes from a technical standpoint to better understand their strengths and weaknesses, because I realized I really could only commit to one. XOOPS has a strong technology foundation, community, and support, and it seems to be more flexible than any of the others I played with almost two years ago. With the profiles capability in 2.2.x, it removed a major deficiency (albeit maybe created some incompatibility with previous modules), and the earlier tokens mechanism brought some security especially with easier integration to other systems.

I recognize a few issues and ask a few questions...
* Maybe I missed the major complaints, but I'm also just installing the first v2.2 install as a test site to play with it (yet looked at it some during the 2.1.x phase). I understand a number of modules are running into problems working correctly on the system due to major core re-writing and re-structuring to accomodate the profiles that EVERYONE was asking for. Is there something else I'm missing?
* Are the XOOPS.original core developers incredibly proprietary over this (if so, then I missed it)? I.e., why can't the XOOPS Cube people provide some development on this project in a way that addresses what they feel is missing and is their contribution to the community? Personally, I'm looking for ways to contribute to the project and have done so through some documentation in the DevWiki during my first module project. I had assumed that this project was by it's very nature a community project. A number of people in our make-a-quick-buck society would have rather just figured out how to make a buck off it in a proprietary manner and not share this hard work with others (with very little to no compensation for it).
* How could we who are running into these problems with these modules now have better supported the XOOPS.orig authors who were doing the rewrites? I must admit that I didn't spend time testing the RC versions on my current sites. That's why you don't hear any complaints from me. I've been busy trying to make a living with various projects and implementing XOOPS sites for non-profits (so far) in between. I'm sure that the XOOPS.orig devs are, too (in between spending likely copious amounts of time making our lives easier by developing the XOOPS system). Maybe we need a longer time to try it during the RC stages? Would more of us try it if the RC testing stage was longer or would we continue to wait for the "official, stable" release?
* I guess if I were looking to improve a specific focus area of XOOPS, I'd first contact the developers and discuss this with them. I'd assume that happened here? If so, what was the discussion like? I can't believe that they didn't want the help. Or did the work otherwise interfere with the plan? Is the planning for future XOOPS done in a community way? How is that handled? However, I also know that in volunteer-driven organizations that significant amount of the decision making goes to those actively involved in doing the work. It sounds like they have worked hard to incorporate what they can. Have they also worked to incorporate more developers in the project?

Every time I bring a powerful interactive website to a non-profit that is helping our society in ways innumerable, I thank the developers of this CMS. I hope to be able to donate to them in the future when I use it in a commercial site.

I certainly don't have any ill feelings towards the XOOPS Cube developers. It's generally a free world, with people free to do what they want. Thus, they have every right. I do wonder, though, a lot about why we can't work together towards the same goals. If anyone can clue me/us in to the reasons we can't that would answer a lot of questions from the community standpoint.

And work will continue in the community that each member feels provides the most value to them and the larger community. It would likely be better for all of us if we were to figure out ways to contribute to this single effort rather than divide our energies since generally we all need the same things.

Working together, we can create change and make a difference.

Peace,

Quote:

Not being 'involved' and only 'watching' from a distance, it looks like Pride, stubborness, language barriers and culture differences to me. Which, interestingly enough seems to be the main reasons for lots of other 'groups' not getting along.

In an odd way, I think it makes XOOPS more human!

I just like to help people, it's what I do at work...it's what I do in my spare time...it's just what I do. The 'forks' have a tendancy to frustrate me, as it spreads me thin across many different place and different topics and different situations and reduces my ability to 'help'...until I am able to learn more about the CMS, or the code, etc.

I've tried just about all of them (CMS's) and XOOPS is just the most well rounded and 'complete' one around. It will take more than a fork or a difference of opinion to get me to give it up!

It's beena while since I've said it..."Thanks XOOPS...for everything!"

-Adrock "Serviendo Guberno"

Again this useless chat...
Again and again, and nothing was changed from previous talk... Did you remember it? I was after announcing of work, in the times of 2.0.10.
I'll comments all sentences
frankblack wrote:
Quote:
Because style of discussion with Onokazu from other part of DevTeam was harsh, aggresive, offensive. Nobody want and show the desire to find the compromise, and excluded author of XOOPS from team.

Quote:
Only strongest will survive... Terrible style of last versions it introduces the substantiated doubts about the viability of disfigured by cosmetic operations onokazu's creation... It's started not with 2.2 line (but 2.2 show this picture in full size), but with first version of "XOOPS Mithrandir" - 2.0.10

Herko:Quote:
Rare fact. OSS is cooperation, not a platform of demonstrationg EGO, which only often show some CoreDevs here...

Main advantage of forks is ability to drop the ballast... It's a task for you - define, who is ballast for XOOPS as idea, as community, as business platform:
- author of XOOPS, which inheritance is used even now (XOOPS 2.2 is mostly old core... only some bells and whistles in excange to quality added)
- dev team, developed buggy as hell versions, which generates so many negatibe reaction.
And don't name this current horror "XOOPS Original" it's "XOOPS Mithrandir", which go now it's way to death

History teach only one - nobody learn from it. All projects here started and finished by words, not real results

Incubator.
Results - none

QA Team
Results - none

Liason Team
Results - none

News team
Results - none

Will wait results of new Beta team...?!

Quote:

https://xoops.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2558


marco

Quote:


(original comment edited)

Sorry LB - i've had a lot of bad problems recently... I will do what I can - but please be patient with me

In the past I have also expressed dismay at certain situations and said my peace. I also put my work where my mouth is and continue to support XOOPS to the best of my abilities.
There is another perspective to the main point being implied, Onokazu left but another person has taken responsibility for continuing the work. All projects need a leader, without them they would simply stop due to over discussion and inertia. You could question why some specific person has taken up the gauntlet, but, truth be told he dived whole heartly into a very complex situation. For that you need balls the size of watermellons
How can you say the QA team hasn't done anything when people such as MarcoFR and Dave_L have done so much? Don't forget that there's is a tough job because not only do they they develop the work, but their sucess depends on mod dev's using it.
and the liason team? Davidl2 is without a doubt the most friendly, helpfull and diplomatic person on these forums (without being prejudice towards other great contributores).
A project this size that changes leadership is bound to run into some speed bumps.
I would also like to comment something: In the past I had some issues and said my peace on these forums. Mithrandir besides being polite and civil, never once flamed me or tried to discredit my opinion and everytime I asked for help, he was there promplty giving answers to my questions (and Dave_L too, Thanks Dave_L you rock!). This, in my opinion, is a clear sign of a leader.
Teams are being formed, people are contributing, progress might be initially slow for this or that reason but I do believe that this great community will still stay together and make XOOPS better.
Lazybadger has also been activly supporting people providing help and also contributing with his great module testing ground.
I just wanted to show that even if you might discord on some issues, you can still be apreciative of all the hard work that so many have contributed.

Just my 2 cents.
I'll shut up now............

I wish I could do more to be honest...

Ok, Here we are, at the first place when we started this discussion in the past.
Xoops Core devs are working hard on this project and I know this by heart. Just look at the new features they have implanted in these new versions and you shall see their great work.Now look at XOOPS Cube versions and what you see? Well, I think there are only security features.
I remember tat, before his new Fork, Japanese XOOPS Founder was preventing the current XOOPS members from implanting new features in 2.0.1x versions(I'm not 100% sure of what was happening but I do remember something like this happened). Anyway, until Onokazu left the core team, there was a long time since core dev released a version with new features. There was also security problems before he left. I cannot even forget the immediate releases of 2.0.1X series.Anyway, I think the current dev team have done a wonderful job, I as well want to contribute by volunteering to test these 2.2x series before the final release.
Lets forget this issue and talk about other stuff.

P.S--> @LazyBadger:
You forgot the Promotion and communication team, we were slow too! But I'm trying to ask the group to wake up now! We have also done a great job in past few days,Just waiting for Hero to accept the final decision.

Have fun,
Alitan {{<<>>}}