21
Nnemesis
Re: What does XOOPS need?
  • 2005/5/28 17:56

  • Nnemesis

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 35

  • Since: 2005/5/12


I hear what you say, Herko and that would be an acceptible, maybe desirable philosophy if XOOPS was a game or a toy but it isn't. It's a web building app.

The problem is that this trial and error learning aproach is of no use to anyone who has an active site. If someone running a site has a problem, the last thing they want to be doing is experimenting with solutions that may well totally screw up that site. Especially if that site has active members, signups etc. In this case what they want IS the solution without the experimentation, otherwise they will find themselves fielding angry emails from ppl asking why their site is down again, etc, etc.

Lets just use myself as an example.I've built a Xoops-based web site and officially launched it a lil over a week ago. I was pretty pleased with myself for getting to grips with the basics pretty quick. I won't be adding any more modules as I have the site just how I want it right now. During the time I was putting it together and messing about with it, I came across probs that I couldn't figure out myself so I came here. I would first go to the appropriate forum and scan through the existing threads to see if someone had allready asked the question. Sometimes I was lucky, but most of the time I would see a question that had been asked, that had been viewed dozens of times and had gotten no reply or the infamous "go read the faq". Off I'd trot to the faq and again, sometimes I'd be lucky. When I wasn't I'd post the question myself and yes, you guessed it, I either got no reply or "go read the faq". On one occasion, after the third time of asking, one very helpful person happened to see it and gave me a concise and polite answer. Bingo! Job sorted in seconds.

Now my site is active and I am, on the whole, very happy with it indeed, but it still has a few minor niggles. I've asked about these minor details a number of times with no success and so have just given up asking. If I were a less stuborn person, I may well have thrown in the towel and gone elswhere, which I suspect many sadly have.

My point is, if ppl are tired of reading/answering the same old questions, don't visit the help forums. Leave it to those that like to help but don't go in there just to get snotty at newbies for asking repetetive questions. That's what newbies do.

Think about what the aims of Xoop are. The whole point of it is to make the building of high-end websites easier for ppl that either don't have the knowhow or the inclination to build them from the ground up. For that very reason, you are going to get alot of ppl asking alot of questions. If those ppl are made to feel patronised or foolish, they'll simply go elsewhere.

Please don't mistake this post as me being ticked off, anoyed, etc. I'm far from it. Like I say, I have my site up and running and it is a far better site than I could have built without xoops. But the question was asked "what does XOOPS need?" and as a newbie, these are the probs I encountered when I first got here.

22
wtravel
Re: What does XOOPS need?

Nnemesis, you have a good point I think in the post above. The users of this community that are most active in answering posts started using the FAQ to make it easier for users to answer standard questions that many of us had in the past as well. I can imagine that for users who just started exploring the possibilities of XOOPS it can be difficult to find the right Questions & Answers.

I do agree with learning curve that is required as well, so new users should take some time to find out how they can find answers on the xoops.org site other than asking the question right away.

People answering questions on the forum could perhaps help them by pointing them to the right category or question in the FAQ. That way the user can find the answer to his question and learn about the FAQ.

Last but not least: Some advice for new users would be to first create a test site before going LIVE with XOOPS in the first place. By testing their changes first instead of applying them to their LIVE site at once users can avoid running into problems when they apply changes to their XOOPS installation.

23
Jharis
Re: What does XOOPS need?
  • 2005/5/28 19:53

  • Jharis

  • Just can't stay away

  • Posts: 488

  • Since: 2005/2/13


Hi guys,
I had absolutely no experience in web design before xoops. My webmaster at work recommended XOOPS in a passing conversation. I took his advice and ask him to do the initial XOOPS install for me. I have been on my own since that time. Setting up and running XOOPS isn't the hardest thing to do, but knowing where to start can be challenging.

What gave me a headache was how best to pick a module among all the ones available for use. I had to find a site using a particular module or install the new module on my site. Having a simple way to compare and explore a module and all its features would go a long way. I would like to have the option of importing the old modules configuration into the new module durning installation with a click.

Just my thoughts.

don (el paso)

24
zeroram
Re: What does XOOPS need?
  • 2005/5/28 20:04

  • zeroram

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 326

  • Since: 2004/6/30


Quote:

davidl2 wrote:
Well said Hsalazar.

I'm a XOOPS user - I'm not always happy with things - but I'm not moaning to overworked people, but am instead trying to do my own little bit to help.



I think this is the key to keep XOOPS alive.. am not a programmer either but every time i see somebody need help y try to give my best, from my own experience or if i can help in something i know i do it.. regardless of any thing getting in return..

so, like david12 said.. if we all do a little bit to help, we can make XOOPS grow and keep xoos alive.

25
jensclas
Re: What does XOOPS need?

Quote:

Nnemesis wrote:
jensclas, I'm sorry to have to say this but your reply is the most condesending post I've read on this entire board and does not encourage newbies in the slightest. What you are basicly telling us is "This is Xoops, sink or swim on your own".


Thanks for your support herko - Nnemesis this is not what I intended at all. I am certainly not suggesting we throw beginners in at the deep end - rather I am suggesting that beginners need to appreciate that they are learners, and need to develop skills beyond asking a question and expecting an immediate answer. Many need to appreciate that XOOPS is not an out of the box program with full on customer service...it's a dynamic tool for website building they need learn to use. One of the hardest lessons for the new user is this fact. We have worked hard to provide more tools for new users and I think it is reasonable to expect them to use them.

If you have unanswered questions post them on FAQ, Bump them, rephrase the subject or topic, or develop a rapport with a community member you feel confortable with who may be able to help.

Let me rephrase the answer to what does XOOPS need? It needs a community of users willing to learn with each other rather than a community of consumers expecting a service. I hope this clarifies my response.

Cheers

26
Bassman
Re: What does XOOPS need?
  • 2005/5/30 1:07

  • Bassman

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 1272

  • Since: 2003/5/23


Very well put Jen.
On this site, as well as many if not most, you'll get mostly three types of users: Firstly the type who will want instant answers without doing any searching, reading up or trial-and-error learning. Secondly, you'll get the dedicated users who will do their best, like Jen, to help out wherever they can. It's these people who will often develop themes and/or modules for themselves that usually get released to the public, even though they have little or no PHP/Mysql knowlwedge, just because they want to put back into the community. (see the Top Posters list for some great examples :)) Then you have the third group, which I believe to be the vast majority, who will download Xoops, install it, install a few modules and themes, and be totally happy with how everything works without having to ask more than one or 2 questions.

As for me, i'm just happy that I have found a solution for building fantastic dynamic websites that installs easily, works well and has a wonderful support community. That's so rare, and I have only the highest praise and thanks for the core developers, theme/module developers and those who answer questions in the forums.

Your time and effort is totally appreciated!

27
davidl2
Re: What does XOOPS need?
  • 2005/5/30 1:20

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


I'm sort of between 2 & 3 myself :)

28
Herko
Re: What does XOOPS need?
  • 2005/5/30 5:34

  • Herko

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4238

  • Since: 2002/2/4 1


In project management terms, we have a userbase (type 1), a community of interest (type 3) and a project (type 2). I see a level of commitment to a common cause growing along that path

Herko

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