Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/31 9:48

  • carnuke

  • Home away from home

  • Posts: 1955

  • Since: 2003/11/5

I have not seen this thread until now because I've been working on a site for propspective user. If XOOPS were selling something, this would be considered a 'Big deal' They currently have over 1 million users on another public system and they are about to make the changeover to a custom built system. They have seen a pilot site that I built to demonstrate how XOOPS can deliver what they want. Their comment

"Wow! I am impressed. This is by far the closest thing that I have seen to what we want from a software package that I have seen.

How far from the standard XOOPS installation is this? How much time did it take to set it up? I am very curious. I would love to play around some more with this code. "

What the user wants is a a custom built site, complete with modules and a sample dataset that will run out-of-the-box. That's what I have built. 2 file sets- an ftp package and a database. Upload, configure, run, and it works.

There are many more considerations though and this is why I am posting a comment here. This kind of 'customer' needs meta assistance beyond the XOOPS package. They need to understand how to make informed decissions on how to serve 1 million users with multi-sites, shared resources and data collection. These are big time users who will attract commercial developers with persuasive marketing methods.

They know that open source and specifically XOOPS can provide the platform they need, because they have seen it, but our voice is weak compared to the commercial bespoke web developer.

This kind of user needs an identity from the product, they need a complete package and meta support. This is also a market we should consider.

Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/31 10:33

  • Herko

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4238

  • Since: 2002/2/4 1


kenmcd wrote:
We will need a home
Temporary or permanent is fine.
Martijn - you have a domain name we could use.
Anyone have some web space we could use temporarily?
A subweb, anything would be fine. URL name doesn't matter.
Only requirement is we can install XOOPS with a custom template and theme. And we have direct access to be able to make changes. The Marketing Project could also serve as a XOOPS showcase site. And be a landing place for incoming marketing generated inquires.

Whoa there. I really want to stress here that this project should be -by default- a XOOPS.org project! We can provide the space you need for this. Do not focus on a showcase site, there are other projects for that And it'll not have to become a landing for marketing enquiries, lets keep all that centralised here on the main website. So, you need a project space to work, just say the word and I'll have it set up for you as a xoops.org subdomain


Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/31 10:43

  • kenmcd

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 63

  • Since: 2004/6/8 1

Mithrandir wrote:
One of the fuzzy things is what you want exactly from the official XOOPS team, Ken. Am I right in thinking that you want something comparable to pages 3 to 5 of the OpenOffice marketing plan to build on?

This post is an example of exactly what I want from the official XOOPS team.
Feedback, direction, your XOOPS environment knowledge, official appointment, commitment to the project.

Regarding the OpenOffice marketing plan - yes, I would like to have the board's
input on that type of marketing goals, and once these goals are established for XOOPS,
a commitment to achieving those goals.
As I have discussed earlier, there may be some effort required from the development
side to meet certain marketing goals. Some very easy, some more difficult.
Exactly what will be needed will not be known until the competitive analysis is done.
I want board commitment to some level of development which may be required.

My concern - the marketing project is expected to operate autonomously rather than
be a part of the whole. The user focus I have discussed before is very important.
How successful the project will be in the long-term will depend on development also.

The XOOPS Foundation goals are somewhat general.
To create more specific marketing goals, I am looking for input such as the remainder
of your post.

To give my initial views:1) Search engines are fine, and getting more people visit this site would be good - however, we HAVE many users, we HAVE many visitors.

We have someone offering to do this.
SE marketing is a piece of a marketing plan.

What I want is that when someone does get to this site, relevant information is available and easy to find.

I have been thinking about this.
The XOOPS site is huge, complicated, and not structured to sell.
It is an information site, not a marketing site.
We need a XOOPS Marketing Project web site.
We can use it to manage the project and as a showcase for XOOPS.
Requirements are simple: able to install a customized XOOPS, able to self-manage
all aspects of that site (this would include FTP access).
Where this is is unimportant to me.
A subweb here. A stand alone site.
While I would prefer it be here, we can pursue another situation if needed.

2) Having many users is not a goal in itself. I am not doing all this work in order to satisfy someone in Texas, who learn about XOOPS next week. I am doing it for YOU. You, who already know about XOOPS and use it on your site. I'm doing it for you, who are thinking about trading XOOPS for another CMS (hopefully making you change your mind). I'm doing it for myself, because it will reflect well on me to be part of a respected project.

Marketing wise - current users (customers) are the best source of new business.
The current database is filled with the kind of users you want to target
who for whatever reason did not get XOOPS up and running for their project.
This is another area I would like to see commitment from the board.
I have never received any communication from XOOPS since I registered.

Active outgoing communication is a must.
A once a month mailing of news and info would be very useful.
Even quarterly to start would be wonderful.
I am sure thousands of the web site members have opted-in to receive email.
Not using this channel is just nuts.

I know there is an issue with the web site performance and emailing the list.
Maybe we (the marketing team) could negotiate a free deal with an outside mailer.
Perhaps we could use an email program on a local machine and throttle it
to do the mailing over 5 days.
Perhaps we could do the mailing in blocks each day at the web site's lowest
traffic level and throttle it to minimize the impact.

What ever the final solution, we must do this mailing.

I want reviewers and journalists to be able to review XOOPS and honestly say that it is a good product that they can recommend.

One thing you can count on is them being honest.
Plan on an honest assessment - this may be unpleasant, it may be wonderful.
And hopefully factually correct - our job to help insure this (XOOPS all of us).

We are up against tough competition. There are commercial systems such as MS SharePoint, Sitecore and others. There are open source systems such as Xaraya, PostNuke, Mambo and OpenSourceCMS. What do we have that they don't have? Two strengths, I do think we can use: Easy to setup, easy to trial (especially relevant in competition with the commercial systems) and focus on security (relevant in competition with the other OS PHP systems)

These type items are what will be what we are trying to discover in the competitive analysis.
You may be surprised.
What we consider easy setup may be difficult for the target user.

This is an area where I would like board commitment.
We definitely should target users where XOOPS has what they need now.
Invariably there will be items which they require that we do not know about.

I would like a commitment from the board to attempt to meet these needs.
Easy stuff should happen almost immediately (like my easy examples in posts above).
More difficult items should at a minimum be added to the ToDo list.

Basically what I am looking for from the board is some level of commitment to user-focus.

My personal opinion is that we should aim at increasing the market share in the area of small and medium enterprises that need interaction on their websites (not just static information pages), have multiple roles in managing the content (e.g. providers, editors and approvers) and have IT responsible employees.

This would be a great target market.
** Small and medium sized companies with at least one dedicated IT person.
Does that sound like a good description?

The last one perhaps needs a little explanation: XOOPS does not have a lot of consultants connected to the project, we cannot guarantee support and we cannot (yet) guarantee quality of 3rd party modules etc. Therefore XOOPS is not a viable solution, in my eyes, for a small company without IT personnel who can learn the system and provide internal support.

This would be another fantastic target market.
** Third-party integrators or consultants.
You get one integrator and you get multiple installations.
They are also a good project resource.

A more long term goal could very well be that it should be usable by anyone, regardless of IT knowledge, but XOOPS as of today is not like that, I think, and that is what we should focus on: How XOOPS is right now.

Ease-of-use is important no matter the client size.
A commitment to this user-focus should over time make XOOPS easier for all sized clients.
The two target markets above seem to fit the "How XOOPS is right now" quite well.

If we can confirm these are the first two target markets for this project,
we will have made progress. Please confirm this with the other "official" members.

Herko, we need your thoughts and input on all of this.

So more what I would like to see/hear from the board:
- Yes, we want to pursue the XOOPS Marketing Project.
- Yes, we are committed to supporting the project.
- Yes, we confirm you (me) as the XOOPS Marketing Project Lead. (a mandate)
- Yes, we will help by setting up a subweb for the project.
- And the stuff I mentioned above.



Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now

Herko, Ken,
I did not acquire the domain for the XOOPS M&C team to communicate on etc., a XOOPS subdomain will be great. The project in my opinion is internal affairs, and so not usefull for a showcase. We are dealing with openSource software, and in contrary to for example OpenOffice, in my opinion we should not share the whole marketing plan with the rest of the world.

The domain Ken is referring to will be usefull in gathering independent marketing information from all types of CMS users as well as from different CMS providers (including xoops).

For the subdomain: would marketing.xoops.org be a good option?


Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now

Martijn and Ken - could you PM me with your IM info (if any - MSN, ICQ) I think we could do with a "realtime" talk to ensure that we are on the same page regarding what should be next step from here.

Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/31 22:40

  • biglove

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 157

  • Since: 2004/8/18

Gruessle made a good point.

The first CMS to dominate gets the majority of the users and the developers should follow.

I say this because I think developers are USERS FIRST, then if they like the project, they start to develop it further.

Mithrandir and Herkos, what do you guys think about this thought?

Look at Linux vs. the BSD's for a case study. Linux got more users, now BSD is just an also ran. I've used both and now use OS X ( BSD is the core of this OS ), which shows that even the losers can become winners if they focus on maximising User experience.

It would be nice to 'target market' XOOPS module developers. However, I'm not aware of a list we can go buy of module developers that are looking for a new CMS to support.

The closest we can come to creating such a list to put some ad's and press on PHPdev.com and similar sites.

I think if we got enough users everything else will follow.

And BTW, I'll be the person handling the Search Engine Marketing. I have the start plan ready and just need to get approval to begin implementing. I should be able to make the changes in a day or so, then you guys can review it.

The changes may take 90 days to start showing results, so the sooner we take action the better.

Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/31 22:54

  • m0nty

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 3337

  • Since: 2003/10/24

kencmd wrote:

Active outgoing communication is a must.
A once a month mailing of news and info would be very useful.
Even quarterly to start would be wonderful.

we are in the process of creating a news team for this purpose and others, you can find the topic HERE

Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/31 23:40

  • kenmcd

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 63

  • Since: 2004/6/8 1


biglove wrote:
It would be nice to 'target market' XOOPS module developers. However, I'm not aware of a list we can go buy of module developers that are looking for a new CMS to support.

The closest we can come to creating such a list to put some ad's and press on PHPdev.com and similar sites.

I think if we got enough users everything else will follow.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

This is getting VERY tiresome.

Second concern is dealing with technical people who think they know everything about marketing and PR and make everything a battle.
Too many very smart technical people don't know what they don't know.
This got very, very old.

Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/4/1 12:18

  • ladon

  • Quite a regular

  • Posts: 284

  • Since: 2003/10/31

Currently I'm not a very active member in the community, but I would really like to change that. I use XOOPS for some personal purposes and I am planning to use it commercially in the near future. Even though I’m not that active I visit xoops.org every day to catch up. Every now and then I visit other CMS’ websites like mambo. Every time I do I’m amazed by the difference in marketing approach.

I realize that most haven’t even really thought the marketing aspect trough, but they still manage to put up a descent image. Most obvious difference is presentation on the front-page of the website, generally used only as a portal and presentation-outlet linking to various sections, whereas Xoops.org looks like an unordered collection of everything XOOPS has to offer.

For a couple off weeks I’ve been thinking about ways XOOPS could position itself better in the market (both for commercial and non-commercial use). Even though I check XOOPS every day, I don’t check the forum on a daily basis, so I’ve completely mist this thread until now. My current education might not have given me large amounts off marketing skills, but I think I can contribute quite some anyway. I’ve read throughout the thread that a lot of people already volunteered to help out, count me in as well if more help is needed. I’d like to give something back to the community. I understand an overkill off participants won’t do the project any good, so I won’t be offended if the project is full .

Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now-Just 4 now!!!
  • 2005/4/1 13:37

  • new_bie

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 92

  • Since: 2005/1/29

I want to speak as a newbie,my english is very basic and I found mambo very difficult to get started,I only was attracted to Mambo because they have "lot of good looking themes" that's the only reason.
After visiting opensourcecms.com I discovered XOOPS and I find this is the best open source ever..it took me less than 20" to publish my website.
Xoops need some redesign in the admin section..
I wish a quicktime tutorial about how to create new themes.that´s the only thing..
get rid of the boxy and square look..Imago has create very nice themes..

I hope in the XOOPS v.4.0 can be released with the most popular modules and cool themes.



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