61
phppp
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/26 14:59

  • phppp

  • XOOPS Contributor

  • Posts: 2857

  • Since: 2004/1/25


If my input went off-topic again, sorry I do not intend to, but I still wanna add:

1 agree with Mith, XOOPS needs more manpower.
One of the aspects that XOOPS is short of, is documentation. Not like module development and theme design, documentation is a type of task with less motivation to Doc Team (Team carnuke is appreciated by XOOPS community). So, what could be done to motivate the Team?
XOOPS itself is opensource but the management could be in a commercial manner, which could be more efficient. But how? I have no idea. The future XOOPS fundation perhaps will have a practical solution
2 The success story of firefox is talked above. However, one of the reasons that it succeeds so much is that it moved forward earlier than its competitors, like IE 7. Back to XOOPS, if we wait XOOPSPhere, mambo 5 is also being looked forward to. So, take action, from now.

Now back to THIS topic:
1 a XOOPS tutorial CD (around 600M) has already been available in Chinese XOOPS community, made by a XOOPS user (not even in their local support team, as I learnt).
2 one of the most popular XOOPS text tutorials, XOOPS For Dummies (You know the author), was also released some time ago.
So, XOOPS promotion is not a so huge project that requires to establish a team and start off together. It can also be done by each individuals then organized to be more powerful.

Additional:
We also planned to organize a theme contest in our local community but no follow-up after a long holiday (we had the sponsor settled down and the call-for statement is still there).
We were asked to provide some materials by the most popular Chinese e-magzine so that they would publish a XOOPS exclusive. Unfortunately, we did not make it, lack of manpower and English/Local documentation.
So, hope the discussion could find practical solutions that will benefit both XOOPS Official and Local Support.

62
davidl2
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/26 18:16

  • davidl2

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4843

  • Since: 2003/5/26


Quote:

Herko Coomans wrote:

David, your input would be very much appreciated here

Herko


Would to help if possible

63
m0nty
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/26 18:55

  • m0nty

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 3337

  • Since: 2003/10/24


Herko Coomans wrote:
Quote:

M0nty, can you start a new thread about a XOOPS News Team that informs the XOOPSers?


davidl2 wrote:
Quote:

Would to help if possible


ok, will start a thread soon, after i've had a shower something to eat.. :)

64
kenmcd
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/26 21:28

  • kenmcd

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 63

  • Since: 2004/6/8 1


Offers to join the Marketing and Communications Team
so far . . . in no particular order.
- JasonMR
- Mamba
- seth_sd
- wtravel
- davidl2
- Luciano
- skara

My apologies if I have missed someone.
Please add your name.
Thanks to all!

---

Quote:
Herko Coomans wrote:
XOOPS was built by coders, not by designers. Mambo was built by designers, not by coders. That's why XOOPS looks better on the inside, and Mambo looks better on the outside. It also shows the focus: Mambo has an outward focus (it's system users), XOOPS an inward focus (it's community). I think this explains a lot, and also gives some direction on where we want to go. Keep what we have, and build on top of it.


From a marketing standpoint - this is the problem.

Mambo is more focused on the end-user, and marketing (external).
XOOPS lives in its own little world (all internal).
If these were both commercial software, Mambo would outsell XOOPS substantially.

As you have said XOOPS does not focus on the end-user.
Additional evidence:
Usability is a focus on the end-users needs.
Mambo has focused on this and recently upgraded the admin interface.
The XOOPS admin interface is horrendous from a usability standpoint
There is no visual hierarchy, no logical grouping of tasks, it's a link dump.
Yes, everything is there, but is hard to learn and ugly.
The newBB2 interface another link dump.
There is no logical grouping of tools, the visual hierarchy is minimal.

Technically newBB2 is probably fine work, maybe even a marvel.
To the end-user it appears inferior.
Perception is important.
Would you buy BMW with a lousy paint job?

Usability is just one feature to examine in the Competitive Analysis.

If someone is offended by this assessment, tough.
Openness, honest assessment, and reality are required in successful marketing.
Anything else and we are just wasting everyones time.
The landscape is littered with failed products whose developers
refused to deal in reality. The marketplace proved them wrong.

The users do not care about technical superiority. (eg. MS vs. Linux)
- Does it do what I need? Solves my problem.
- Does it do it now?
- Does it setup easily?
. . . and on to the next project.

What is under the hood does not matter.
Yes, the code work may be excellent.
Yes, one may be rightly proud of such good work.
To the end-user it does not matter.

All the end-user cares about is what does it do for me.

Features
For some reason various features keep being discussed.
Features are not marketing.
Features are a competitive advantage or disadvantage depending
on the market you are trying to reach.
Based on the seth-sd post above, if you are trying to penetrate the corporate
intranet market Exchange integration is a required feature.
Without this feature XOOPS will not be successful in this market.
To other potential users this feature may not be important.

Good usability is a competitive advantage.
Good documentation is a competitive advantage.
And on and on . . .

Some features are a deal breaker for particular target markets.
Some features must be tweaked for a particular market.
A corporation may require documentation that is a searchable, bookmarked,
easy-to-print, all-in-one PDF. Some may want a searchable CHM.
Q. Why do you think larger vendors supply HTML, PDF, and CHM documentation?
A. User focus, user needs, user request.

Back to Where to Start
(1) Setting some goals (as discussed in my earlier post)
(2) A Competitive Analysis is then done to assess the market environment.
Everything else emanates from here.

Part of that analysis is to determine the strengths and weaknesses of the product
(XOOPS) in light of those goals. This includes product features.

A goal to penetrate the intranet market may not be realistic without Exchange
integration. XOOPS will lose to products which offer this feature. That other
product meets the customer needs in this situation. XOOPS does not.
If that is the goal, development needs to be focused on adding that feature.

Competitive Analysis is a self-assessment and a comparison to other products.
Living in your own little world is common for small commercial companies.
The client reaction to the Competitive Analysis was many times shock.
They had no idea on how they and their product fit in the marketplace.
They had no idea of how they are actually perceived by the marketplace.


Target Markets
If you only want to promote XOOPS to the audience of fellow coders
little is required. They understand the language. They appreciate the work.
They will dive in up to their elbows.

The rest of the business world speaks a different language.
Talking code excellence to the corporate manager in-charge of the knowledge base,
internal communications, and the intranet is a complete waste of time.
Swahili would be just about as effective. You will get the same glazed look.
His language is benefits, features, ease of use, maintenance cost, etc.

Those are the items which will be created after the goals are set
and the competitive analysis is done.

1. Define the target market.
2. Create the messages for that target market.
3. Communicate those messages to that target market

Until I and the team know who those target markets are this
will all be theoretical and perhaps hard to understand for a
non-marketing-trained person. That is to be expected.

Hopefully we will be able to do as much of this project as possible
in a open environment for all to see the process and participate.

First Step - Goals
Herko, Mithrandir and others are going to start the goal setting process.
As the FNG, I don't know who all the players are yet.

A project home will need to be established.
Again as the FNG, you (the collective you) will need to help guide this.
Herko, Mithrandir, your ideas on this?

Note: Glad to see XOOPS News being discussed. Sorely needed.
Product News is a marketing communications channel so at some
point we may want to coordinate.

I appreciate all those who have offered to help!

Ken McDonald

65
Mithrandir
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now

Quote:
Herko, Mithrandir and others are going to start the goal setting process.
As the FNG, I don't know who all the players are yet.

FNG? Means what?
Quote:

A project home will need to be established.
Again as the FNG, you (the collective you) will need to help guide this.
Herko, Mithrandir, your ideas on this?


What do you need, you reckon? For project home, I mean. Private forums here? A mailing list?

About the goals, we will have to discuss it, but I think it is fair to assume that we want to have less of a "geeky" image. We want to be useful for companies, both for intranet and internet, but know too little of what companies really need in order to use XOOPS for this.

But we will need some ping-pong on this. We (Core Team) cannot just set some goals and expect the M & C Team to make it so. We can give some general goals of what we would like, then you can run with the idea and its feasibility - and maybe we will end up with a quite less ambitious first goal, but with the aim of reaching the next.

We need to set some reachable goals and split them into manageable tasks in as I see it (minimum) three areas:
1. Appearance (First impression - pleasing and promising)
2. Content (Passive marketing - making relevant information available and easy to find)
3. Development (Evolving the product)
4. Communication/PR (Active marketing - telling others)

We will most likely end up with a long-term plan that involves focus on 1. and 2. in the first stages, probably requiring some work on 3. but more and more on 4. as we progress with a good product, a good appearance and relevant content on XOOPS site(s), but need more people to know about it.

66
banned
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/27 2:26

  • banned

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 159

  • Since: 2004/5/16


Quote:
kenmcd wrote:
Quote:
banned wrote:
Xoops, as is, is not good enough.

Interesting.
Not good enough for what?
Not good enough to use now as a CMS?

Regards,

KM

Not good enough to be a Portal System - there is a difference between CMS and a Portal System, as you know.
And the last 2 letters of the name XOOPS are meaning 'Portal System'.
As is XOOPS need some tricks and tasks here and there before being suitable in a 'portal'.
(Don't misurestand my words, I'm using it in various places and I'm supporting it on the Italian Support site - just as a member.)

Do you want an example? Try a search for 'xoops_pagetitle' in this site. There are things that have been discuss more and more here and no one has make a change.

BTW, I'm only a guy with too high expectations, right?

Quote:

jdseymour wrote:
Quote:

banned wrote:
- An Official chat for instant support and for help grow up (more and more) the community. Do I've to tell you that an 'official guy' have to live this as a second life?

The above is a part that I disagree with. I think the current method of support is sufficient. If we go to a chat support the solutions will be lost and not searchable, as well as making the solutions harder to enter into the faq.

Your other points are valid in my view. Maybe we should start a new thread of what XOOPS needs to compete. Because again, it is getting off the main topic.

I'm hating chats too :P

banned

67
vikrant
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/27 7:05

  • vikrant

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 97

  • Since: 2004/11/9


Hello Xoopizens,
Check this out OpenSourceCMS this is a site where in almost all the CMS are under one roof. Visitors can try every CMS before installing.
It looks like a Mambo marketing platform. But postings made by XOOPS users is something everyone needs to look at.
Please make your reviews here maybe more visitors to this site can be brought to XOOPS community.
Keep Xooping
Vikrant

68
vikrant
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/27 7:20

  • vikrant

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 97

  • Since: 2004/11/9


Hello Xoopizens,

WOW look at this response.
One thing has to be agreed every one connected to XOOPS is more than a mere user of XOOPS. Everyone like XOOPS and everyone have some soft corner for xoops. For me XOOPS is fantastic as I tried PHPnuke and Mambo before using Xoops.
One thing all the people here needs to understand Content Management System (CMS) mainly survives (I mean here is site popularity) on the content and very rarely depends on looks. Wait guys by here I don’t mean that XOOPS team need not work on the looks of xoops. But for me the present theme looks good, spacious and really I can read XOOPS site for hours without having any strain on my eyes.
Yes XOOPS now needs to work on marketing of XOOPS I still don’t understand why is not popular for me I am comfortable with XOOPS it works fine with my case.
One suggestion here is XOOPS can get a web hosting sponsor where a pre installed XOOPS can be provided. Maybe some standard installation packages can be made like for a CMS, Search engine, Yellow pages etc.
I am not a programmer or Designer but hobby internet user. I am using XOOPS to form a community for the metal working industry.
Please let me know if I can help XOOPS in any way?

Keep Xooping

69
gruessle
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/27 10:43

  • gruessle

  • Friend of XOOPS

  • Posts: 348

  • Since: 2003/9/20


This thread has become overwhelming and unmanageable I believe.
I also think it is time for the core team to make a decision here.
We can not just ask people to become leaders in this without having any real plans.
Also I don't believe it would be right that plans are just made by one person since XOOPS belongs to all of us.
My suggestion is that we start a project. The best project management Internet software I have found is eGroupWare. (By the way Mambo is in eGroupWare)
So I would be glad to help I don't think I have the time to lead, but I am not willing to read a ton of junk all day, and if we continue doing this on a forum that is exactly what we get a lot of junk in between the good stuff.

Again a project management software with groups, tasks, notes, links etc etc, so we can get organized and started. How about it Herko.

70
Herko
Re: Mambo winning on PR-field now
  • 2005/3/27 11:53

  • Herko

  • XOOPS is my life!

  • Posts: 4238

  • Since: 2002/2/4 1


Gruessle: Kenmc has said in this thread that he'll lead and start by making a plan. It's impossible to make a plan with everyone involved. So lets just wait and see what Ken proposes, and make a project out of that.

And lets not focus on tools (for projects management or how to make XOOPS better), but on what it is we want to achieve first.

Herko

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