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  4.  / Redhat and MySQL bad for us...
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1
RicoCali
Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/10 16:58

  • RicoCali

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 120

  • Since: 2002/7/29


With the current structure for Redhat and MySQL it is not a cost effective solution anymore. It cost more money now to use Redhat vs Win2003 server. Also, MySQL isn't really free if you're not using it for commercial use. Sure you can pay for it if you want to but why when there are other solutions that are just as good maybe better and it is free.

I'm now leaning towards FREEBSD and POSTGRESQL. Problem is we don't have that middle layer to support POSTGRESQL and would be happy if there is any news in terms of where the CORE developers are going with this.

Also, anybody using FREEBSD with XOOPS. If so, do you like the results?
2
CBlue
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

You need to purchase commercial non-GPL MySQL licenses:

1. If you distribute MySQL Software with your non open source software,
2. If you want warranty from MySQL AB for the MySQL software,
3. If you want to support MySQL development.

So it's free as long as you don't do or want any of the above with it.
3
Big_Bro
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/10 17:24

  • Big_Bro

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 52

  • Since: 2003/2/26


Without wanting to start a platform holy war and purely for academic reasons, what accounts for the differences in costs that you experience between the different platforms? I'm an MCSE and have being working with Windows servers for years in an IT role but for my non-commercial web interests I prefer to use Red Hat/mySQL, for what I do it seems to be cheaper overall. The moderate trafficked RH/mySQL XOOPS site I have it seems to be a much leaner solution (for me) than a Windows server.

However my traffic still grows by the week and at some point I may run into the cost issues you are experiencing, and any firsthand info and experience about the economics of the different platforms would certainly be helpful.
4
RicoCali
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/10 19:07

  • RicoCali

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 120

  • Since: 2002/7/29


****moderated by Rico***
5
blaed_
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/11 2:22

  • blaed_

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 5

  • Since: 2003/4/6 4


Any particular reason you're set on RedHat for Linux? There are a lot of other well supported distributions.

Here we run various combinations of stable/testing/unstable Debian, which is very nice to manage and maintain. I hear Knoppix is a good choice if the Debian install scares you a bit or you want a bit more "pretty".

As for Postgres... At the risk of starting a flamewar, I personally find Postgres a pain to admin compared to MySQL, and for the type of applications I see people using it (I work at a webhost) the advantages it does have never come into play.
6
RicoCali
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/11 4:24

  • RicoCali

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 120

  • Since: 2002/7/29


Quote:

blaed_ wrote:
Any particular reason you're set on RedHat for Linux? There are a lot of other well supported distributions.

Here we run various combinations of stable/testing/unstable Debian, which is very nice to manage and maintain. I hear Knoppix is a good choice if the Debian install scares you a bit or you want a bit more "pretty".

As for Postgres... At the risk of starting a flamewar, I personally find Postgres a pain to admin compared to MySQL, and for the type of applications I see people using it (I work at a webhost) the advantages it does have never come into play.


I'm not trying to sell anyone anything here. I just want to know what everyone's experience are with other solutions. I'm not set on Redhat. It cost money now if you are using it commericially. Same with mySQL. There are people that want to pay for Linux/MySQL and some people that don't want to. I just happen to be one of those cheap fools that don't want to if I go commercial and I'm working on very low margins. I just want to know what everyone's experience are with FREEBSD and PostGreSQL and I thank you for sharing your experience with PostGreSQL.
7
blaed_
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/11 9:48

  • blaed_

  • Just popping in

  • Posts: 5

  • Since: 2003/4/6 4


I guess what I meant is since RedHat is out for you, is there any particular reason you immediately discounted other Linux distributions (free ones)? :)

Also the limitation is you can't distribute MySQL with a commercial product. There is nothing stopping you from distributing instructions for downloading MySQL, or possibly even an installation script that downloads/installs MySQL (bit less certain about that) with a commercial product. You just can't ship the two together. So in practice it's not a huge barrier.

Further the "commercial application" limitation is in reality a "non GPL compatible license" limitation. If your application in question is GPL (eg Xoops) then all your problems go away anyway, since any XOOPS derived code must be GPL as well.

Just trying to be helpful
8
DonXoop
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

Dozens of Linux distros out there, MySQL is free unless you're selling a commercial app with it. No reason to run to Windoze because RedHat has changed their market priorities. Too many others to choose from.

Honestly, the only Windows app I'll touch is Terminal Server. Those cranky old PIs and 486's can run Windows with a remote boot and a Terminal Server session.

For a web based database you can't beat a Linux + MySQL combo. PostQ is fine I'm sure but I'm happy with the M. I have a site running with MySQL + PHP with 9 million records in it and it hasn't broken in two years. All the features of PQ and the others just don't apply for my needs, M does is as well or better (faster) with a smaller learning curve.

The biggest reason for me to stay with Linux (any Linux) besides the hundreds of obvious reasons is the remote console access. On the slowest machine with any OS I can get a secure shell into my servers and get the job done. No fuss. The whole idea of "My Computer, Documents, Pictures" and other nonsense has little meaning anymore.

And to clarify MySQL, it has become more liberaly licensed (more free) over the years. RedHat is less free and maybe better suited for those that want to pay for a support phone number. Take your pick of the many free distros.

"Friends don't let friends use Windows"
Apologies to the guy with the MS certificate. I just can't see running that stuff in the back room, but that's me.
9
RicoCali
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/11 14:59

  • RicoCali

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 120

  • Since: 2002/7/29


Quote:

blaed_ wrote:
I guess what I meant is since RedHat is out for you, is there any particular reason you immediately discounted other Linux distributions (free ones)? :)


I love Linux...FREEBSD is close enough :). But if you can suggest a Linux flavor that is highly accepted, that would be great also.

Quote:
Also the limitation is you can't distribute MySQL with a commercial product. There is nothing stopping you from distributing instructions for downloading MySQL, or possibly even an installation script that downloads/installs MySQL (bit less certain about that) with a commercial product. You just can't ship the two together.


Thanks for that tip...I just love these loopholes.

Quote:

Further the "commercial application" limitation is in reality a "non GPL compatible license" limitation. If your application in question is GPL (eg Xoops) then all your problems go away anyway, since any XOOPS derived code must be GPL as well.


Thats a very interesting concept. But to what extent? What if I wrote my own version of XOOPS but every line of code is different. Nevertheless, it looks, smell and taste just like XOOPS? Does it have to be release as GPL? Also, copyrights...Does ONO really own the copyrights of XOOPS since it was derived from PHPNUKE?

Quote:
Just trying to be helpful

Thanks
10
RicoCali
Re: Redhat and MySQL bad for us...

  • 2003/12/11 15:11

  • RicoCali

  • Not too shy to talk

  • Posts: 120

  • Since: 2002/7/29


Quote:

I have a site running with MySQL + PHP with 9 million records in it and it hasn't broken in two years. All the features of PQ and the others just don't apply for my needs, M does is as well or better (faster) with a smaller learning curve.


I would have to agree with you there. I've seen sites running JSP and ORACLE and it doesn't come remotely close to PHP/MySQL combo. But what about Transaction Processing. How do you deal with that since MySQL does not support it?

Quote:

The whole idea of "My Computer, Documents, Pictures" and other nonsense has little meaning anymore.


That was design for my mom but she still doesn't get.

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